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How to remove the side edge burr

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Im getting in to tuning my skis and now have a good set of basic tools and a fairly good understanding (courtesy of Spyderjon) on what I should be doing
Some questions:

1. I am still unsure of how to take off the burr (correctly) after sharpening the side edge, I have 2 moonflex diamond stones 400 and 600, 220 grain gummi and an alu oxide stone, I also have the appropriate side edge beveller - factory angles are already set at 89 and I am happy to stay with this for the time being.

I understand the burr created from using the diamond stones will hang over the base edge, I have seen/read various methods and stones described to remove this hanging burr but they are all free hand and I am concerned about either changing the base edge angle and/or blunting the skis by running a stone/gummi stone over the edge that I have just sharpened.

To me the most logical method is to use my base edge file guide with the appropriate stone to remove the burr, this would keep the correct angle (89) but I have not seen one video, article or forum post describing this method so I assume there is a reason for that!

2. What stone should I be using to take off the burr?, I have read/watched advice that suggests using just about every stone available to remove the burr ceramic/diamond/Arkansas/gummi/alu oxide

I am off skiing in July so have a few weeks to get it sorted, many thanks for any advice

Regards

Jason
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@Fish_Head, the burr is created when you file the edge (rather than diamond stone) as far as I understand it.

I normally just run a hand held gummy stone gently along the base edge held flat against the base.

So file (if needed) to sharpen, smooth and polish with diamonds and remove burr with gummy.

I would use the alu stone for damage repair when you hit stones and you get case hardened dings.
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Use your 600grit Moonflex to remove the hanging burr. Yes, you can use it in your 1 degree base edge angle guide but it's dead easy to remove the hanging burr by hand. Leave the ski positioned in the vice as though you were working on the side edge angle (ie ski on its side with the base away from you) and place the diamond file on the base edge angle with about a third of the diamond protruding above the side edge. Use the diamond 'dry' & hold it flat on the base and then tilt it a 'whisker' so that it's flat on the base edge. Now push it slowly down the length of the ski (not back'n'forth as that action is not as stable) whilst apply light to medium pressure on to the base edge. You'll feel a slight resistance from the hanging burr as you go. Check that the hanging burr has been fully removed & if there's still some burr present then repeat the process.

Then hold your gummi stone at 45% to the edge and run that very lightly down the edge.

I'm posting this off my phone but I'll post some pics tomorrow.
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sledger wrote:
.....the burr is created when you file the edge (rather than diamond stone) as far as I understand it......

A hanging burr can be raised/cut with either a metal file, a diamond file or usually a combination of both. It's just that a diamond usually removes less material (depending on the grade).


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 1-06-17 22:39; edited 1 time in total
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Hi Sledger

Cheers for the reply

I assumed that files are only really used to set the correct edge angles and once that is done you then use diamond stones to keep the (mainly side) edges sharp, are you saying that diamond stones will not raise a burr when sharpening the side edge?

I do have an understanding of the various methods of deburring the side edge by using a stone of some description on the base edge but they are all free hand, if you are using a gummi stone flat against the ptex base then in theory you are not really touching where the burr is connected to the side edge as the base edge is on a 1 degree or more angle, if you are holding it on the base edge itself how do you do that accurately freehand as its a tiny bevel?, I can see that a softer gummi might deflect enough to be pushed down on the bevel edge

To go back to my original question, i'm curious as to why we do not use a base edge file guide with the appropriate stone to remove the burr?

I find this ski tuning extremely interesting but also find in the various forums/videos/web sites a lot of conflicting advice, I like to do things correctly so please excuse the really granular questions and explanations rolling eyes Very Happy

Regards

Jason
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@Fish_Head, I think while you were replying to @Sledger @Spyderjon has answered your question above...
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Tubaski wrote:
@Fish_Head, I think while you were replying to @Sledger @Spyderjon has answered your question above...


That's exactly what happened Madeye-Smiley

Thanks for the info Jon, I thought better to post on here so others can benefit from any advice

I'm assuming if the side edge just needs a touch up then the 600 diamond stone will do the job
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After doing the side edges I flip the ski to be base up then use the base guide and diamond to deburr rather than by hand. Seems to be more logical to retain the edge angle by using a base guide as 99% of the time the next step is to put some wax on.
I can't think of any downside to using a base guide if you are going to wax after a sharpen.
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There's actually two methods for removing the hanging burr which is why there are some conflicting opinions when doing web searches etc.

Method 1 (Basic method) - use a hard gummi stone held flat on the base of the ski - do not try to angle the gummi to the base edge angle. Note that a HARD grade gummi must be used as a soft or medium grade gummi will 'bleed' over the junction of the base/side edge & actually blunt it. A hard grade gummi, when held flat on the base of the ski, has just enough 'give' in it to 'mould' on to the base edge angle to remove the hanging burr but is not so soft as to bleed any further over to cause harm. Good results are easily achieved providing that the hanging burr is not too big. This is also a pretty idiot proof method.


Method 2 (Advanced method) - use a diamond file (usually 600grit) or an Arkansas stone, held flat on the base edge angle to remove the hanging burr - usually a continuous firm slow smooth pushing pass. Your can do this either by hand will the ski on its side in the vice or you can put the ski flat & use the diamond in your base edge angle guide. Done correctly by hand (which is very easy to do & is how the WC techs do it) with a fine diamond there is no risk that you'll alter the base edge angle.

The benefit of doing it by hand is that the fine diamond will often throw up a further very fine burr which is then removed by a pass with a gummi held at 45 degrees to the ski base meaning that the ski then has to be positioned back on its side so its saves you having to re-position the ski.

Note that absolutely no pressure must be applied to the gummi otherwise the edge will be blunted. Hold the gummi very lightly between index finger/thumb & then sit it on the edge under it's own weight without any downward pressure. This is a far more consistent method than just using the basic gummi method but if excessive pressure is applied to the gummi then your hard work can be undone & you'd have been better off using the basic method - so is probably not the solution to use if you're a klutz with tools!

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@spyderjon, good info, thanks
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I always put a bit of tape on the 600 and do a pass down the base edge before doing the side edge. Doesn't this normally take off the burrs? Basically Method 2 above. I don't do the 45 degree gummi after. What is the consequence of missing that out?
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Layne wrote:
I always put a bit of tape on the 600 and do a pass down the base edge before doing the side edge. Doesn't this normally take off the burrs? Basically Method 2 above. I don't do the 45 degree gummi after. What is the consequence of missing that out?

Erm, but there won't be a burr on the base edge before you do the side edge (maybe some damage you clean up with a pass of the alu oxide stone, but not a burr). You start off with a burr on the side edge caused by skiing, then you file/diamond file the side edge to remove the burr and sharpen it, which creates a burr on the base edge which you then remove with the diamond file which potentially creates a very small burr on the side edge which you finally remove with a very light pass of the gummi at 45degrees.
Correct me if I'm wrong...
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Tubaski wrote:
Layne wrote:
I always put a bit of tape on the 600 and do a pass down the base edge before doing the side edge. Doesn't this normally take off the burrs? Basically Method 2 above. I don't do the 45 degree gummi after. What is the consequence of missing that out?

Erm, but there won't be a burr on the base edge before you do the side edge (maybe some damage you clean up with a pass of the alu oxide stone, but not a burr). You start off with a burr on the side edge caused by skiing, then you file/diamond file the side edge to remove the burr and sharpen it, which creates a burr on the base edge which you then remove with the diamond file which potentially creates a very small burr on the side edge which you finally remove with a very light pass of the gummi at 45degrees.
Correct me if I'm wrong...

Yeah, sorry I was talking about a burr from dinging a rock not a burr left from doing the side edge. Mentioned here

Is me not removing the hanging burr after edging the reason I ski so sh-it?
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Is this really worth worrying about if you are not racing? I would think one run down a boiler plate piste will sort your burr out.
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@Themasterpiece, It isn't even something I worry about when I am racing.
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skimottaret wrote:
After doing the side edges I flip the ski to be base up then use the base guide and diamond to deburr rather than by hand. Seems to be more logical to retain the edge angle by using a base guide as 99% of the time the next step is to put some wax on.
I can't think of any downside to using a base guide if you are going to wax after a sharpen.


Agreed
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Jon,

Thanks for providing clarity on this issue Very Happy
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I just do a final pass with one of spyderjons 1500 diamond files in a base guide Madeye-Smiley Call me pedantic when it comes to tuning.
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@Scarpa, you are pedantic when it comes to tuning.
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1500 diamond file? Wouldn't it be cheaper using Brasso on a bit of card Toofy Grin
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I just use method one and have never had a problem.
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