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All mountain short turn carver

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Looking at options for an all mountain one ski quiver; are there skis in the 90-100mm range which can carve short to medium radius turns on hard pack? If not what is the widest ski that can? By hard pack lets define it for the sake of argument as snow which is too hard to get a ski pole to stand up in. I can see that 100mm skis can carve super g turns, but is it unrealistic to expect them to grip in shorter turns?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Turn radius has more impact on short/large radius performance than width, and your skills and willingness to commit and pressure the edge is the key determinant to whether you can carve generic 100m ski on hardpack or not. Plus construction etc - really width is only a small part of the equation.

There's no question a 100mm ski is sub-optimal in the conditions you describe. They can still be plenty of fun and totally usable, but you can't really expect high performance race style really bending and working the ski type carving on anything other than a high performance race ski (and frankly the amount of people who have the skills to do that is very small anyway).

Nordica Enforcer in either the 93 or 100mm would be my recommendation. Metal construction helps with edge grip and dampening vibrations, but it's a little softer than some others so you don't need to be quite so committed/brave to bend them on hard snow, and fairly short turn radius (I think around 17m off the top of my head).
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- As the skis get wider, speed edge to edge gets slower....and they often have a turn radius that is too large for carving short turns.

- If you are light, going for a shorter ski, usually gives you a tighter turn radius.

- I think the Enforcer is a great choice...or two other options would be Scott The Ski, if you want something more playful and Atomic 90 CTi

- The Blizzard Brahma could be a possibility, but might not be wide enough for you...which may depend on your weight/percentage of time On Piste..

What percentage of your time would you be using the ski Off Piste?
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Blizzard Brahma, Scott The Ski and the Scott Slight are all superb metal layer carving skis from 88-100mm underfoot.

And if you have the skill/balls to tip 'em then the Whitedot Preacher (112mm) is excellent as well on everything bar pucka ice.
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Whitedot R 98 trad. I know I keep saying it a lot but I was very impressed with how it behaved and this was coming off an FIS SL (which for the avoidance of doubt had a lot more grip and would monkey down a firm groomer in short rad)

I do question how much short rad people in general ski, most people I see on pistes are skiing just sub GS medium rad & then there are subsets who basically ski a super G line everywhere.
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I prefer to spend as much time off piste as possible, but despite this seem to spend quite a lot of time on the piste traveling around, because the conditions off piste are poor or with friends who don't want to go off piste(no friends on a powder day excepted)
I don't want to ski fast super g type turns and want to avoid skis that are built for speed rather than turning.
The Enforcer sounds interesting, I've always suspected that the Brahma might be too stiff though no experience to back up.
I guess there is no substitute for a demo and may have to head for the fridge.
The skis on the radar are:-
Nordica Enforcer 93/100
Nordica Navigator
Volkl 90eight
Scott the Ski not much info on the Slight.
My ski for the last six years has been the Icelantic Shaman. Which are brilliant in any kind of soft snow,but a handful on hard pistes. Probably like the Preacher.
I tried the Movement Player for a day this year and was disappointed having been a fan of the Jam. It was less willing to turn, unresponsive and preferred longer faster turns.

At 75 kg I guess I'll be looking about 175-180 for the shorter radius.
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Scott The Ski from the previous season has been available at great discounts from the likes of Glisshop.

The Atomic 90 CTi, is also from the Light/Fun/Grippy end of the spectrum.

The Nordicas are generally considered a little less damp than the Blizzards....but still more stable than the Scotts/Atomics (which also have great feedback).
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@BertieG, arguably very few skis have a radius for short turns other than race or piste oriented skis.

But how often are you really carving short turns?
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Old Fartbag wrote:


The Nordicas are generally considered a little less damp than the Blizzards....but still more stable than the Scotts/Atomics (which also have great feedback).


Have to say at 70kg I found the slighter softer Enforcers to feel damper than equivalent Blizzards.
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As @Dave of the Marmottes, says it's mostly sub gs, but it's easier to say "short radius"!
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clarky999 wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:


The Nordicas are generally considered a little less damp than the Blizzards....but still more stable than the Scotts/Atomics (which also have great feedback).


Have to say at 70kg I found the slighter softer Enforcers to feel damper than equivalent Blizzards.

Personal experience is more useful than my theoretical meanderings.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Old Fartbag, Both the ski and 90eight at tempting prices. The Vantage 95 looks interesting compared to the vantage 90 cti ?
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@clarky999, is softer and damper turnier than stiffer and more lively ?
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Found the 90eights rather squirrelly and soft.

I find my Bonafides completely all mountain and all piste.
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BertieG wrote:
@Old Fartbag, Both the ski and 90eight at tempting prices. The Vantage 95 looks interesting compared to the vantage 90 cti ?


Scott The Ski is great for 50/50.

I have no knowledge on the Vantage 95....but if it's a similar construction, it should be great. NB. I've just read that the 95 C does not have the metal layer, whereas as the 90 and 100 CTi do.

Only you can decide whether 98 under foot is getting a little wide for the amount of piste skiing that you (realistically) do.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sat 20-05-17 13:33; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
BertieG wrote:
@clarky999, is softer and damper turnier than stiffer and more lively ?


Depends how you're turning! Softer means it's easier to bend into a tighter carve compared to a stiffer ski with the same dimensions.
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@BertieG, I would say not, but I'm told I'm a reasonably aggressive but subtle (if that makes any sense) skier. So a soft ski I find easy to over power and it just goes wrong if I'm wanting to work it.
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How about the Volkl RTM 84 a little narrower than most of the ones mentioned above but is a very versatile ski that is great on the piste and the rocker gives it useful performance in the softer conditions.
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Short turn carver would kind of imply something a bit more 80-90mm might be more to what you desire...

As always, it's best to demo before buying - but i'll throw Dynastar Powertrak in there. They come in an 84 or an 89 ( and a 79 for that matter...) and should be available for demo - demo'd and bought the 84 in Whistler. Some rocker but not too much so doesn't flap around it seems, and carving was fine ( coming off a pair of Kastle RX12’s at 77mm... bargain buy in Canada as 'everyone' skis off-piste on 100+ wide skis, Puzzled - and yet there's there's all these peeps still on the piste, what gives?).

Mind you Renoun Z-90's sound like the business if you read this wink

http://pugski.com/renoun-z-90/
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I think I better rephrase the question:- are there 90-100mm skis out there which can easily carve sub gs turns on hard pack?
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Volkl Mantra (most rockered), 90eight, Blizzard Bonafide, Elan Ripstick (softest). All of which I tried early season. I bought the Blizzards, she bought the Mantras.

There are probably similar profiles from all mfrs but these were what was available to us and also considered the more punchy end of the spectrum.
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Volkl Mantra (most rockered), 90eight, Blizzard Bonafide, Elan Ripstick (softest). All of which I tried early season. I bought the Blizzards, she bought the Mantras.

There are probably similar profiles from all mfrs but these were what was available to us and also considered the more punchy end of the spectrum.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Volkl Mantra (most rockered), 90eight, Blizzard Bonafide, Elan Ripstick (softest). All of which I tried early season. I bought the Blizzards, she bought the Mantras.

There are probably similar profiles from all mfrs but these were what was available to us and also considered the more punchy end of the spectrum.
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BertieG wrote:
I think I better rephrase the question:- are there 90-100mm skis out there which can easily carve sub gs turns on hard pack?

If looking for this...go for skis with radius of sub 20M....which is most of the skis recommended. The Enforcer 93 has one of the lower specified turn radius figures.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 20-05-17 12:27; edited 1 time in total
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I am quite ski sensitive, and noticed big differences between all the ones I tried. None were actually bad skis, but I preferred the Blizzards.
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Interesting review of the Stockli SC Laser as a possible 1-ski quiver for the front side: http://forum.pugski.com/threads/stockli-laser-sc-170cm-the-ski-everyone-should-own.1418/
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There's only one thing wrong with Stockli's and that's the need to give them the deeds to ya house to own a pair!
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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@ulmerhutte, I am finding my Bonafides an excellent 1 ski quiver for all sides... snowHead front and back ...
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@ulmerhutte, wish I hadn't read that !
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I am unconvinced the Stöcklis are so much better than, say, a similar Völkl.

The race skis are very nice but not, to my dated recollection, better than my Völkl GS and definitely My old Nordica SLs were a significantly more aggressive ski.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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The people who rate Renouns on Pugski are some very good skiers. I've skied with a few including Phil who certainly doesn't hang about on groomers. He gave me an early demo pair to try and it felt competent although in all honesty was too short for me so hard to give an objective view on. Quite a luxury purchase again with the current exchange rate though.
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