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Ski touring setup - feedback on idea

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello all. So, after doing a taster into ski touring I'm thinking about a setup for next season. At this stage I see myself doing shorter tours from the lifts and the odd day, rather than full weeks.

I love my Line Sir Francis Bacon skis, and whilst not light I'm prepared to live with the weight (2200g per ski). They currently have Marker Schizo bindings.

My initial thought was get some frame bindings, say Marker Tour F12, and be done with it. But thinking deeper and a little further ahead, I had the idea:

- Buy some Dynafit Rad 2 (or Beast 14, Kingpins) - I want something that I can ski in the resort also.
- Quiver killer them in case I want to get some lighter touring skis at some point.
- Also quiver killer the Schizos (rather than fill in the holes) then I have a choice.

As I don't live in the UK, I'd buy the quiver killer kit from Jon and self install - I'm a mechanical engineer and DIY enthusiast so I should manage ok.

I think I'll find mounting points to avoid interference (is there a recommended distance between quiver killer inserts?).

Any thoughts or problems with the above plan?

Any issues with the number of holes or exposed quiver killer inserts not being in use?

Thanks!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The Schizo has a fairly tight mounting pattern at the toe so your choice of binding will be determined by which tech binding will fit alongside the Schizo locations as you want a min of 10mm separation between the inserts. If you tell me what BSL the Schizo was mounted for I can advise which binding(s) will work. And if your tech boot is different I need to know its BSL as well.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thanks @spyderjon. Current BSL is 317mm. I need to buy the tech boots, but I'm going to look this week...

As I'm sure you know Line SFBs have the rather confusing markings of centre, Eric's choice -2cm from centre, and Recommended -6cm from centre. The reason I bought Schizos was to have a play around. They are mounted -3cm from centre so I can get the full range. But I've settled on skiing at -5cm from centre. Confusing!
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Here's a pic of the mounting location options based upon a 315mm tech boot mounted 2cm behind your Schizo's:


As you can see you've got bad location clashes at the toe so unless you offset the mount you're screwed. I also overlayed the Tour & Guardian bindings & you're buggered with them also.

What will work great would be the Beast 14 Test which has the regular Beast heel but with the length adjustable toe so it can be offset on the ski then brought back in to position on it's track. I sell loads of these for the exact scenarios like yours. The toe track is super strong with zero play & adds only a bit of extra weight.


Some tech boots can be pretty short so you'll need to re-look at this once you know your final BSL.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thanks for the effort @spyderjon. Interesting. I just measured it, and it seems they mounted the Schizos based on 310mm (if I use an internet template) with the Schizo zero and boot centre (red line) at -4cm from ski centre.

I've actually been skiing with them at -1.5cm on the Schizo which means a boot centre at -5.5cm from the ski centre (dashed red line).

Just so we are on the same page, the centre line of my boot (dashed red line) is 190mm back from the most forward holes for the toe. And there is 385mm between the most forward holes and most rearward holes.



If I overlay a Rad 2 template for 315cm centred on my dashed red line, I get more interference from the rear holes. Assuming I'm doing it right...

Anyway, I'll get some new boots first and be in touch about options. I'm over in the UK in the summer and deliver to my parents place is an option.

Thanks!
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Assuming that your 385mm and 190mm dimensions are measured from the hole centre then your 385mm length equates to the bindings being mounted at a jig length setting of 314/5mm, so a whisker shorter than my drawn length - which will actually make things a tad tighter.

Let me know your BSL when you get your boots.

Obviously the best boot for you is the one which fits best but avoid the Black Diamond boots as the replacement heel insert required for the Beast heel won't work with them.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Tried on quite a few different pairs of AT boots today, and the best (for me) were some Lange XT 110 Freetour in a 26.5 - fitted really well out the box and seem perfect for what I'm looking for. But then I started to read about the soles - they are Dynafit compatible but have WTR soles. Obviously they will be ok with a tech binding, but I think this means I won't be able to swap my Marker Schizo bindings with these boots as they are only for ISO 5355 (Alpine) soles, I believe.

Is there an AT boot that will actually be compatible with my Marker Schizo bindings?

Or should I just go with a tech binding only solution for everyday resort also?

Finally, the guy in the shop mentioned something about the metal claw bits on back of the Beast binding maybe damaging the top of the boot heel if it has the Dynatech moulding (too soft). Haven't had a chance to look into this. Nonsense or not?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
AFAIK, there's only the Tecnica Cochise boot that has inserts combined with an alpine sole. With all other boots you'd need swap the toe/heel soles for use in a regular alpine binding.

If you go for a Beast 14 Test you'd never use your Schizo's again! Which is good as at some point that wire connector will go 'twang'! And the Beast is strong enough for your park requirement. Plus you can save a load by not doing a dual QK mount & just doing a regular mount on the Beasts.

There's no issue with the Beast power insert in an alpine binding heel providing the forward pressure is adjusted to accommodate the 1mm extended BSL. There's one or two alpine heels that have quite a 'wrap-around' you just need to grind off the protruding bumps above the lateral support screws to ensure that there's no interference.
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@spyderjon, I think you are right. The likelihood of me taking two sets of bindings with me, especially if it involves changing the sole of a boot (I tried on the Tecnica Conchise light, but the Lange were a better fit) is little to none.

I still had the idea to QK the Schizo positions, just in case I want to sell the skis at a later date, keeping the Schizo bindings in the basement. But I think I'll be keeping the skis until they get downgraded to rock hoppers. I'll probably just sell the Schizos then.

I'll send you an email regarding the Beast (or other AT) bindings. Cheers.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
What is "quiver killer"?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
abc wrote:
What is "quiver killer"?

There is a picture on Jon's website.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Inserts.



You drill the ski and put in the inserts instead of the binding screws, they're permanent. Then use bolts to fasten the bindings to the inserts.

Benefit: easily removable bindings, and the chance to use two sets of bindings one the one ski.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Ah, got it. Thanks.

Quote:

and the chance to use two sets of bindings one the one ski.

That's only possible if the two sets of bindings have the exact same mounting holes, isn't it? How often is that the case?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
abc wrote:
Ah, got it. Thanks.

Quote:

and the chance to use two sets of bindings one the one ski.

That's only possible if the two sets of bindings have the exact same mounting holes, isn't it? How often is that the case?


It's actually the other way around. If the mounting holes aren't too close together you can add a second set of inserts Cool
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
So if I'm understanding it correctly, the inserts allow the easy removing of the binding. But I'm struggling to see the benefit of easy removal of binding.

To actually swap between two sets of bindings, it'll need two sets of inserts? (and it's only possible if the mounting holes don't overlap?)
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@abc, The other usage is one set of bindings and two or more sets of skis, I suspect this is more common but you would have to ask Jon.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
abc wrote:
So if I'm understanding it correctly, the inserts allow the easy removing of the binding. But I'm struggling to see the benefit of easy removal of binding........

To enable you to share one binding across multiple skis therefore saving the cost of purchasing additional bindings &/or reduces weight/bulk when travelling, particularly air travel.

Or you could have different bindings mounted on the same ski, ie alpine & tele or alpine & touring. Or even alpine, touring & tele on the one ski.

abc wrote:
......To actually swap between two sets of bindings, it'll need two sets of inserts? (and it's only possible if the mounting holes don't overlap?)

Yep, both pairs of skis would need to have inserts installed for the specific make/model of binding being shared. And to maintain the structural integrity of the ski there needs to be some separation between inserts, usually 10mm.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Seems like most of the queries have been solved but just to add my 2p, I'm running kingpins on faction Candide 3s. This is a really light setup for a ski of this size but there are some drawbacks. Because they're kind of a big mountain freestyle ski (which I believe the sfb is too) the long tails can be a bit of a pain in the ass when touring. I did the haute route on them so it's not a complete dealbreaker but I definitely hadn't done myself any favours when it came to doing kick turns, especially on steeper stuff.

On shorter tours maybe it's less of an issue but on things that are quite exposed and when there's a time element where you need to be getting to a specific location before conditions got too sketchy, I found myself resorting to boot packing earlier than everyone else on more "traditional" touring setups because I didn't have the time to be fannying around with dodgy kick turns every 5mins.

Boots wise, unless I'm missing something, I use k2 pinnacles that have a tech insert with an alpine sole. I thought there were a few options like this and the Cochise but it's been a while since I've looked so I could be wrong. I did wonder about quiver killers for a standard alpine binding but just went with kingpins for everything and haven't had any issues, other than the "supposedly non existent but definitely existent" additional faff of getting in to a tech binding.
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Jon provided his usual excellent impartial advice. I went for the Lange Freetour 110 boots, and Jon sorted me out with some Beast 14 Tests to help avoid toe end hole interference.

@el nombre, You are right that the SFB have a lot of ski behind your heel. Hoping that's not going to be a huge issue for what I'm planning to use them for.

Your K2 Pinnacle boots have an ISO 9523 touring sole. A lot of bindings will take both ISO 9462 alpine soles and ISO 9523 touring soles, but not all.
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