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Insurance with lift pass or normal travel insurance

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi,

When I've gone skiing I've always done the "full" travel insurance over the internet for the whole time I'm away, last time I went I saw that you can get on piste insurance with your lift pass and I saw it again when booking my EoSB ski pass, what do people normally do?
I don't have any of my own ski gear, I'm more just wanting medical insurance while I'm out my home country.

cheers
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There's been threads on this fairly recently, but my basic understanding - and advice from recent injury experience - is that some lift pass type insurance may cover you for piste recovery, maybe search & rescue & even sometimes emergency medical costs (I don't know for certain); but will it get you and your party/companion home early, by medical repatriation etc if neccessary? Will it cover legal costs if you need to sue someone or if someone sues you for causing injury?
Personally, wouldn't ever travel without very full travel insurance package.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
As i understand it; insurance with lift pass gets you off mountain and to 1st point of medical care without an issue, then travel insurance kicks in nicely after that if needed.

Travel insurance may cover you for the 1st part too but it's a case of you pay and then reclaim whereas with the pass insurance no money needs change hands Wink
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Yeah that sounds about right, think I'll stick with the full insurance like before.
Cheers
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

As i understand it; insurance with lift pass gets you off mountain and to 1st point of medical care without an issue,

EHIC then kicks in and Cart Neige will cover repatriation if needed. You do not need both.
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For the relatively small price of Carre Neige (the insurance you buy with your lift pass if skiing win France) I'm happy to be over-insured. Piste rescue and private medical clinics tend to recognise Carre Neige automatically, and will often require just a signature on some claim forms. For other types of insurance you will have to pay upfront yourself and claim it back. For the cost of two or three drinks I'd rather go for the low-hassle option, so I have Carre/Carte Neige plus regular travel insurance (plus an EHIC card).
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@rob@rar, Same, may be belt and braces, but I don't want even a minutes faffing if I need a helo. Carte Neige does not work if I fall over in the street, so travel insurance will cover that, as the medical practices in resort are often private my understanding is that EHIC doesn't work there.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@chocksaway, @rob@rar, we do exactly the same, EHIC, MPI annual travel and the nsurance bought at the same time as season pass.
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chocksaway wrote:
@rob@rar, Same, may be belt and braces, but I don't want even a minutes faffing if I need a helo. Carte Neige does not work if I fall over in the street, so travel insurance will cover that, as the medical practices in resort are often private my understanding is that EHIC doesn't work there.
I've used all three policies this winter, Carte Neige, EHIC and my travel insurance. I used to think that it was a bit over-kill to have all three, but with this winter's experience I'm not so sure. Each policy has its advantages and disadvantages, and just having one or two policies this season would have cost me either a lot of money or a fair amount of hassle at a time when I felt pretty helpless and in a fair amount of pain.
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I suspect it's no coincidence that those who live or spend a lot of time in resort each season go for both.

I guess it's as they have seen first hand how easy it is in the event of an accident when you have the assurance with your pass!


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Mon 10-04-17 12:42; edited 1 time in total
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I joined SCGB mainly for the insurance, says it comes with a Fogg Medical Card which sounds like it will work just like Carre Neige. I also of course have my EHIC. Still waiting for the card to arrive though 2 weeks after joining.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
For the small amount that the assurance costs per day it's a no-brainer if it is available. However on the only occasion we would have used it, we didn't have it, and it wasn't a problem.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@rob@rar, like you, we have Carte Neige in France, and buy the local insurance in Italy. Saves so much hassle. For remarkably little cost.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
My current travel insurance is with Natwest (bundled with bank account) and includes 'off-piste' but only with a giude. Wondering if I am covered sufficiently with the Carte Neige if I venture off/side-piste without a giude? Will it provide unconditional rescue and medical for off-piste?

I assume I will not be covered by Natwest in this situition for medical and repatriation, and I am happy to accept this risk. I am loathed to buy separate off-piste (over and above Carte Neige) as I cannot opt-out of Natwest as they are happy to insure my daughters medical condition.

Thanks
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
endoman wrote:
I joined SCGB mainly for the insurance, says it comes with a Fogg Medical Card which sounds like it will work just like Carre Neige.
I very much doubt it. With Carte/Carre Neige you simply show your policy card or liftpass, sign a couple of forms and you're done. With Fogg and other travel insurance policies for relatively minor injuries (bill running in to hundreds of Euros, maybe more) you are likely to have to pay upfront and then claim the cost back.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Ozboy wrote:
Will it provide unconditional rescue and medical for off-piste?
I think "unconditional" is a difficult word in that sentence. What would the insurance company behind Carte Neige say if you were caught in an avalanche at risk Level 5 where the resort's lifts were closed so you had skinned up and skied off -piste against the resorts recommendations? I don;'t have the policy in front of me to check, but the words "unconditional cover" and "insurance" are rarely used together... wink
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I do both too. For 2 euros per day, the peace of mind of a no hassle transfer off the mountain makes it worth it.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@rob@rar, Pehaps 'unconditional' too broad. I mean within reason off-piste - eg. without a guide but withn the generally accepted safety parameters.
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rob@rar wrote:
endoman wrote:
I joined SCGB mainly for the insurance, says it comes with a Fogg Medical Card which sounds like it will work just like Carre Neige.
I very much doubt it. With Carte/Carre Neige you simply show your policy card or liftpass, sign a couple of forms and you're done. With Fogg and other travel insurance policies for relatively minor injuries (bill running in to hundreds of Euros, maybe more) you are likely to have to pay upfront and then claim the cost back.


http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/infoandadvice/article.aspx?articleID=217#.WOt9m_krK70
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Ozboy, many, many people have this "gap" in their cover without realising it.

Without doubt, Carte/Carre Neige is the best cover whilst on the slopes and lifts.

But if, as you say, you are rescued and treated following an off-piste accident, you will be relying on the goodwill (or ignorance) of the UK insurer with regard to ongoing treatment, medication and repatriation. I have the same dilemma as you (and have decided to run the same risk), but I worry that long-term private treatment and/or an ambulance to the UK might be refused.

I wonder how much information is passed on by the resort rescue people about the location of an accident. Once an individual is rescued and being treated, I doubt that the procedures and costs differ a great deal.

Conversely, I would have thought that the UK insurers would be delighted that we are over-insuring for the most uncertain/expensive bit of the cover they are (or are not) providing.

Yes, EHIC should cover treatment, but there are many anecdotes of horrid experiences from Sallanches, Moutiers, etc...
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endoman wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
endoman wrote:
I joined SCGB mainly for the insurance, says it comes with a Fogg Medical Card which sounds like it will work just like Carre Neige.
I very much doubt it. With Carte/Carre Neige you simply show your policy card or liftpass, sign a couple of forms and you're done. With Fogg and other travel insurance policies for relatively minor injuries (bill running in to hundreds of Euros, maybe more) you are likely to have to pay upfront and then claim the cost back.


http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/infoandadvice/article.aspx?articleID=217#.WOt9m_krK70


So for £75 it looks as though you get the same level of cover as if you buy insurance with your lift pass, which for most tourists will cost €12 and iirc for as season is only about €40.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Plus all the other travel insurance stuff as well with the rest of the policy.
snow conditions     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
endoman wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
endoman wrote:
I joined SCGB mainly for the insurance, says it comes with a Fogg Medical Card which sounds like it will work just like Carre Neige.
I very much doubt it. With Carte/Carre Neige you simply show your policy card or liftpass, sign a couple of forms and you're done. With Fogg and other travel insurance policies for relatively minor injuries (bill running in to hundreds of Euros, maybe more) you are likely to have to pay upfront and then claim the cost back.


http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/infoandadvice/article.aspx?articleID=217#.WOt9m_krK70
They claim that it is recognised, but I'm very sceptical (unless they are selling a 're-badged' Carte Neige policy?).
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@sproggski, Thanks - this is indeed a can of worms. I would love to get fully-comprehensive off-piste insurance but just settling for the Carte Neige solution. There is probably more chance of something bad hapenning on the way to the resort or on the marked pistes. I am at a stage of my life now, old with young childeren, where I am not prepared to venture too far off-piste, and if I do its always with a giude.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
A lot of people think that UK insurance is somehow 'recognised' and any immediate, on-piste demand for fees or credit card waived - it won't be. This is the value of the Carte Neige extra cover you're offered when you get your liftpass ("Avec assurance?") - this streamlines the process of getting you off the mountain, one way or another. You won't be left stranded without it, but you may well be asked for a £2-4,000 credit card deposit, after which they have all you details and can chase you down for any further costs. If you manage to get off the mountain but need treatment in the resort, then you most likely still be asked to pay up-front, even with an EHIC. However, some forum posts for both France and Switzerland report that the EHIC was recognised at this point, although you'll still have to pay out for, say, a taxi back to your residence. Conversely, posts report that the insurers used your EHIC to reclaim payments that you made to a local clinic. Once down the mountain, the EHIC generally helps to streamline the registration process, so it's always worth having one, even if there's no demand for payment. The big issue for UK residents is then how good the insurance cover is in terms of repatriating you at the right point in time (rather than when it's financially ideal for the insurer).

Having been involved in two quite serious incidents, I have to say that when someone is badly injured, insurance cover is the last thing on anyone's mind. You really just want to get the injured party the right treatment ASAP. No one is really interested in the fine print - the emergency services want to treat/evac the person as quickly as possible. There's time for negotiation about insurance policy cover. If you're asked to pay, you pay. So this is why, like many here, I have all three forms of cover, Carte Neige + EHIC + Insurance.
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Do most countries have their own version of Carte Neige or is it just France? Just back from Austria and wasn't aware that it was offered as an option when we purchased the lift passes. Fortunately we didn't have any major accidents but would be good to know for future trips.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
You can get the Carte Neige policy document here. It includes a lot more than just getting you off the hill.

I think there used to be a note taped to the counter top in the pisteurs office in Tignes stating which insurance policies would be accepted without question and which would require the victim to pay something and then claim it back.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The Swiss Romande resorts certainly operate an insurance equivalent to the Carte Neige, just called 'assurance'. Last month we were in the 4 Valleys (Verbier) and this was CHF 5/day per person.

I'd also echo the point about policies differing in terms of how they cover you once discharged. A colleague of mine had to convalesce for a few weeks, and then return for a checkup, before he could do the drive back from the resort to the UK. That meant extending their accommodation for another couple of weeks and then organising somewhere to stay overnight en route. His policy didn't cover for all this extra cost.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Does then Carte Neige bought with a PDS pass provide cover on the Swiss side? Thanks
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
sproggski wrote:
@Ozboy, many, many people have this "gap" in their cover without realising it.

Without doubt, Carte/Carre Neige is the best cover whilst on the slopes and lifts.

But if, as you say, you are rescued and treated following an off-piste accident, you will be relying on the goodwill (or ignorance) of the UK insurer with regard to ongoing treatment, medication and repatriation.


Carte Neige covers repatriation and ongoing treatment and medication over and beyond what is not covered by EHIC up to a limit of 3600 euros; unless you are opting for private and non-essential medical care, your excess on the medical costs after EHIC should not touch that.

Does not cover cancellation of holiday/accommodation/flights, loss or theft of personal property, non-mountain sports related injuries etc. etc.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Has anyone had any issues with being double insured? From my reading of some travel insurance policies, they'll expect you to get as much money from the carre neige (or equivalent) or share costs. That's always sounded like more hassle to me than handing over my credit card.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Well my fogg card has yet to arrive so will likely add carre neige anyway. Agree that for the small sum it's peace of mind.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
endoman wrote:
Well my fogg card has yet to arrive so will likely add carre neige anyway. Agree that for the small sum it's peace of mind.

But does it give peace of mind in the long run? Does it really add anything in the long run if you have adequate travel insurance? As per my post above, I'd be concerned about ending up in a complicated mess between 2 insurers.
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Has anyone ever been asked by their UK insurer if they had Carte/Carre Neige? Mine certainly didn't and I'm sure a lot of people have got off the mountain using CN and then turned to their UK travel insurer without complication.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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miranda wrote:
Has anyone ever been asked by their UK insurer if they had Carte/Carre Neige? Mine certainly didn't and I'm sure a lot of people have got off the mountain using CN and then turned to their UK travel insurer without complication.

Assuming that Carte / Carre Neige is classified as an "insurance policy" the wording of my policy (MPI) says I have to tell them.
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Uk insurance....covered me right back to my door in the uk
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@msej449 wrote:
Quote:

Having been involved in two quite serious incidents, I have to say that when someone is badly injured, insurance cover is the last thing on anyone's mind. You really just want to get the injured party the right treatment ASAP. No one is really interested in the fine print - the emergency services want to treat/evac the person as quickly as possible. There's time for negotiation about insurance policy cover. If you're asked to pay, you pay.



We don't take Carre/Carte Neige/Snowrisk

In our latest incident in France the procedure went:
Recovery from piste uphill in the "blood wagon" pulled by skidoo followed by downhill section controlled by a medical pisteur to a waiting ambulance who took us directly to the local medical centre. All they needed was a form filled in with name and address and email. Simplicity itself, they didn't even hold our skis to "ransom". We had an email the following day detailing the costs and asking for our insurance details which we supplied and heard no more as the Insurance company dealt with.

The examination and X-rays at the local medical centre cost 137 Euros which I just paid on credit card, I was more concerned with my wife's condition than bothering to ask if it was covered by EHIC. The ambulance transfer to the regional hospital 40k away was 380 euros, again I paid by credit card for the same reason.

Once at the hospital I was able to contact our insurance company who provided all the support to me and financial guarantees to the hospital that were needed. My wife ended up with 5 days in hospital followed by a dedicated air ambulance repatriation to the UK and private ambulance transfer from the UK airport to our local hospital.

The insurance company had provided the French hospital with an indemnity for the full amount of the fees that were being incurred although they did ask me to show them my wife's EHIC as this meant that the hospital would only bill the insurance company for the 20% of the bill that wasn't covered by EHIC. Because we showed the EHIC the insurance company waived the excess on the medical part of our claim. The French regional hospital daily bed rate was 1,250 Euros a day.

On our return I put our claim in promptly and the claim was settled before I had to pay the credit card that I had used for these expenses.

My conclusion/opinion is that for peace of mind make sure that you get a good insurance company which probably won't be the cheapest. If you get the cheapest then it's probably a good idea to get the Carte Neige/ Snowrisk add-on as well which may end up costing more in total.

The lesson I learned from this experience was "not to cheapskate on insurance". Our annual policy that year cost us £158 including pre-existing medical conditions and cost the insurance company in excess of £30k.

Having said all that I went on the PSB this year and paid for the Carre Neige insurance as I felt the need for a "belt and braces" approach.

There is no right answer to this just the one that you feel comfortable with.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@timc. Sorry fr such a situation, sounds mega stressful & hope all sorts receive ve ring well now.....who did you insure with please?
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@timc. Sorry fr such a situation, sounds mega stressful & hope all sorts receive ve ring well now.....who did you insure with please?
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@ozibird,
Yes it was very stressful especially as the hospital mis/over diagnosed the problem.

LV= (www.lv.com) were brilliant with their assistance even covering my additional overnight hotel on my drive home.

My wife made a full recovery, thanks.
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