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Making movies

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Any budding Spielbergs out there?

I ask as I'm off skiing next week with a go pro and would like to try and make a decent video of the holiday but am also aware that any go pro footage can end up quite dull if you're not doing something insanely death defying or put a fair bit of time into video editing. So does anyone have any decent tips on good footage to try and get/how to edit a video to keep in interesting? Or any examples of decent videos they've previously made?


http://youtube.com/v/qJYvb50N2JM

This is a previous attempt from a two day trip earlier this year (you'll note I'm still aspiring to the intermediate plateau) and I learnt a fair few things, including:
1) switch the camera off when you get on the chairlift. It turns out over an hours worth of footage from chairlifts is not much use when you get into editing
2) batteries die really quickly in the cold
3) Quentin Tarantino I am not

Will also experiment a bit with taking photos in the snow park as I reckon that with some creative camera placement/camera angles you could get some great stills from relatively tame jumps.
snow report     
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Well, since you were in flims.....here's another film from flims. I'll stop that joke now. I try to do movies with as much other people skiing as possible, but this effort proves to me that i need to buy a gimbal or everyone just gets seasick..


http://youtube.com/v/DeQpZwKPOGE
ski holidays     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think it's probably not dull if you're in it. My mum likes my own stuff, or at least she's too polite to say she doesn't.

Some ideas:
  • It's hard to make videos interesting if they're basically home movies - that's just an observation. If you're not in them, they don't offer a lot which is likely to be interesting.
  • Consider positive exposure compensation - the camera will make things look dull if you don't tell it that you're shooting snow (use Protune and dial in plus one stop or so. Which reminds me..
  • Some light is just not great for shooting in - only bother shooting when the light is good for it. That doesn't necessarily mean blue sky/ sunshine, just work out what works well and what doesn't.
  • Footage shot whilst you're moving, of something else which is moving, can be a challenge to watch. You may need a different kind of camera to shoot people riding past - the PoV stuff doesn't work very well for that.
  • My personal thing is that I want to see someone skiing/ riding pretty early in the video. That tells me if I will watch the rest of it or not.
  • I'd take the OP's point #1 further: only ever turn the camera on when you know what you want to shoot and why. The reason is to avoid vast quantities of footage you'll never use, save your battery, and to make you think about what you're trying to show in the shot.
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@Tiesto, my ski buddy is a keen photographer and last time we did a weekend he took about 80 video clips and then stitched them together in 2-3 second bites that gave the whole weekend story in about 2-3 minutes. The continual change of tempo and scene kept it interesting.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I gave up on ski videos, too much work and too hard to make them really good.

The lessons I still remember from the time I tried:
- make it short and snappy. and then shorter and snappier
- change angle, not just GoPro on the helmet, use a normal camera (or smartphone) too
- for helmetcams: film someone just ahead moving fast, or film in a forest, or in a couloir, or close to some other structure. White slopes look boring and much flatter than they are. (interestingly, my first rule goes against what @philwig says
- 3-5 minutes is too long
- you need hours of footage to make 1-3 minutes look good
- make it funny, if you can

These rules are only half-followed in this video (should be shorter, should have less repetition):

http://youtube.com/v/NOJxr0XODn4&t=85s

These rules are even less followed in this video, except for the last one (or so I've been told). Still, it should be three times shorter (you've been warned!)

Offpiste skiing lessons:


http://youtube.com/v/nEnHGnPfKHs&t=199s
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You'll need to Register first of course.
park, powder (must include cliff drops or don't bother) and no longer than a couple of minutes, anything more and everyone will be bored.

no one other than your parents is interested in someone linking turns on a piste.

bit harsh, but true Laughing

edit...RE the "making it funny" its hard to do, but the cavern club comp will give inspiration about how to do it properly Smile

inspiration:

https://vimeo.com/user16205389


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 2-03-17 18:29; edited 1 time in total
ski holidays     
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'd just add, work out why you're making the film.

Do you actually want other people to view it, or is it mostly just for you to watch when you're having a crappy day at work and want to be whisked back to the mountains? They'll be different films I think.

Also, why are you putting music to your video? Is is just because the audio that comes out of a gopro in a case is a bit rubbish? If so, consider something like this.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FWV8KDK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=amz07b-21

Here's a video I made recently - shot from 2 cameras, one (mine) with the fluffy cover, and one without. I've got the green/blue skis. The difference is astounding once we're skiing at speed, totally kills that annoying gopro whistle. I'm totally sold on the concept, plus the insulation made the battery last a lot longer in the cold! I'm also a big fan of keeping the clips short unless there's a real reason to show a long pitch.


http://youtube.com/v/S6Q5Us2xFpw
ski holidays     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Tiesto, my fave "home video" is a mate's from the Inferno a few years ago which despite being quite long serves as a useful training/recall vid


http://youtube.com/v/mgj_uW1fH3k
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
My videos routinely go against pretty much everything said above. It's mostly piste skiing, long shots and usually 10 minutes long...but I mostly make them for myself and just put them on Youtube in case anyone else is interested, they aren't meant to be used as an application for MSP. I also don't set out to make a film, I take a GoPro and record sometimes, then make a video based on what I capture. Occasionally I'll do one or two things when skiing that I think might work, but I never make it my goal.

Clip length is always difficult, you need to take yourself out of context when editing and imagine you're watching for the first time, but that's not easy when you've been staring at the clips for a few hours. It's also not easy to cater for everyone, I prefer to have music on a video to keep interest, but my taste in music might be a bit 'difficult' for some people. Likewise I prefer slightly longer clips at times to get a feel for what it's like e.g I personally would have longer clips than in the video @flaming posted.

This is one I've just made following the MYASH Bash.

http://youtube.com/v/95Gn13IbiGM

It's mostly just a little reminder for myself and those that I skied with, and I'm happy with that. That's not to say that I don't want to improve though, just that the skiing will take priority over the film making.
ski holidays     
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I would agree with loads of whats posted above, particularly thinking about the purpose of the video.
If it's for you and your mates/family to see how you're skiing, get a handheld gimbal and ski as close as you can. Closeness really helps when using the super wide angle lens on the GoPro, otherwise people just look distant and tiny.

One of the best tips I've read is to move the camera in straight lines. Jerky pans and constant movement from side to side gets tiring. A shot aimed across a piste at another skier while you're skiing straight forward can look really nice.

Personally I don't like lots of super fast cuts. Be ruthless if a shot is crap or boring, but don't feel you have to chop every second if you have a great shot.

Also, recording in 60fps is really handy. Slowing it to half speed in post really helps with the shake.

Enjoy the trip and good luck with the video!

Here's a video I made in Niseko a few weeks back. It's mainly for me and my friends to watch and remember, it could be 2 minutes shorter, and I made a bit of a mess of colour grading the DJI Osmo footage, but there are some shots I really like in it.


http://youtube.com/v/HWZL6MVVQa8
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Making a film is a great way to remember a holiday. Use really good melodic music and that will make even poor footage bearable. I tend to decide what music I really like and cut the footage around that. Probably not best practice but it works for me.

Mix with stills and even pics nicked from the internet if necessary. Borrow good ideas. Try to get some footage of everyone in your party to maintain wide interest. Get a good mixture of angles, close ups, themes, inside the gondola etc.

It's quite a lot of faff but also fun and it extends the holiday. snowHead
ski holidays     
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Cheers for the tips, most of what's written makes a fair bit of sense (even if there is some contradictory advice!)

Definitely think I need to decide whether I'm making a video for just those who were on the holiday or something a bit more accessible for others. Either way, I'm sure the temptation is to make it a bit too long...
ski holidays     
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Yep completely agree with a lot of the posts above - and agree that the first question is who is the video for? For you only, then as long as you're happy who cares? If it's just for the party that skiied, then you can get away with slightly longer shots of skiing. If it's for a wider audience or a mix of people then..

- keep it short, one or two mins max
- keep each shot length short - lots of cuts will keep the audience (but obviously mix up the shot length to a degree)
- different angles and mounts (pov, helmet, monopod) - the same type of shot will soon get boring
- mix in non-skiing footage - people just skiing can get a bit samey!
- utilise the sunny days! Everything looks better in blue skies
- it using music in the background, try and have a couple of parts where you utilise the camera audio - just to spice it up.
ski holidays     
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Tiesto, Use a decent editor. Makes the editing process much less tiresome. I am having great success with Adobe Premiere Elements. Really easy to merge output from two or more head cameras if they have been synchronised with a clapper point.
ski holidays     
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Unless you're planning on trying to flog the end product to someone else then make the video you and friends want to see - don't try and make it a Go Pro'esque big mountain production.

Things that work well in my book; people having fun... not endless skiing ie snowball fights, scene setting ie getting on/off lifts, short clips of travel to the resort build anticipation, clever angles (saw a video where people were throwing a selfie stick and cam to each other which looked great), everyone loves a good wyle e coyote wipe out as long as no one gets hurt.

Things that make me feel like I wasted my time watching videos; poor camera angles (such as only seeing from the bindings to tips of the skis), jerky camera movements, low res, crap transition effects (like those swirly ones between shots) for added interest, endless text at the start of the video explaining when, where, who, conditions, temperatures, ski size, last meal, sock colour.

As mentioned you'll want heaps more footage than you think you'll need. Personally I'd keep the camera rolling all the time, you never know when that classic moment will happen so just take loads of memory cards. I'd also make sure you have a load of extra power packs so you can charge your GP on the mountain.

You could make two videos too, one longer one for your reminiscences and a shorter one for broader release, just be ruthless in the edit on the short one.

Be safe, don't do anything silly for "that shot" like hanging out of a gondola. Be aware of your surroundings, I've seen a couple of people have 'moments' when recording and forgetting there are other skiers and boarders on the mountain (Go Pro's on a stick are a sign for me to steer clear). Have fun while you're doing it, remember you're on holiday.
snow conditions     
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Here is a little ditty of some off piste.
This is mainly filmed using Waynos' mobile. There may be a tiny bit of Sony Action Cam.
I'm pretty pleased with this one.


Off piste Snowdays in Ski Amadé January 2017 from ben turner
https://vimeo.com/200053164
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Thanks once again for all the tips... I've now spent the past day reliving the holiday and wish I was back there Sad

A few thoughts:
- Think I ended up taking about 7 hours of footage in total. Of this the vast majority is pretty dull but how are you going to capture that magic moment otherwise.
- I also found powdery/snowing conditions difficult. Loads of times I thought I'd captured something great/hilarious only to find that the lens had been covered in snow/water droplets the entire time
- I could probably have done some more (aka any) videoing outside of the slopes/apres to give it a bit more of a rounded feel.
- The chest mount can give some great footage but it can also give some jerky footage of other people.
- Given the number of people in the video, it was hard to cut it down to anything shorter and not leave anyone feeling cheated. So thats the main reason its a bit on the long side.
- Would have been better if we'd spent a bit more time in the park, and I also think I could have got some good footage if I'd skied on ahead and asked people to ski past me with their best technique possible...

Anyway, for those interested, this is the cut. Given the footage I captured, I'm pretty happy with it.


http://youtube.com/v/BbEArSwi39Q
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Tiesto, That is quite good....Loved the remote control for the music.
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Thornyhill wrote:
@Tiesto, That is quite good....Loved the remote control for the music.


I'd love to take the credit but I followed another piece of advice of advice from this thread, 'borrow' good ideas from other people!
snow conditions     
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Tiesto, Good job! It has a nice flow through it and doesn't drag at all. Nice work sneaking a dog in too, that's always a big seller Laughing
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
See rule 19 from the rules
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Tiesto, just for comparison ("I took 7 hours of video") ...

Even 'cheap' -eg student films from the NFTS - will shoot at a ratio of 35:1 ie 35 mins in the can will result in 1 min on screen. Hollywood can be 100+:1 (think about that for a moment - 100 minutes of "action.... cut" for every 1 minute on screen... and that's not including all the rehearsals, and blocking, and lighting, and makeup, and set dressing, and script-writing, and and and. Want to know where the money goes when making a blockbuster?!)

Obviously with gopro / phone you can extend that ratio to "huge", as the process and costs are much lower and you're are probably shooting a lot more speculatively than film-makers with a storyboard to follow (even if you are not doing multiple takes of the same shot).

So the message is: editing is the key. Be prepared to spend a lot longer on the keyboard than on the piste!
snow conditions     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
flaming wrote:
I'd just add, work out why you're making the film.

Do you actually want other people to view it, or is it mostly just for you to watch when you're having a crappy day at work and want to be whisked back to the mountains? They'll be different films I think.

Also, why are you putting music to your video? Is is just because the audio that comes out of a gopro in a case is a bit rubbish? If so, consider something like this.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FWV8KDK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=amz07b-21

Here's a video I made recently - shot from 2 cameras, one (mine) with the fluffy cover, and one without. I've got the green/blue skis. The difference is astounding once we're skiing at speed, totally kills that annoying gopro whistle. I'm totally sold on the concept, plus the insulation made the battery last a lot longer in the cold! I'm also a big fan of keeping the clips short unless there's a real reason to show a long pitch.


http://youtube.com/v/S6Q5Us2xFpw

Great video, the snow looks wonderful. The last 3 seconds are very funny!
snow conditions     
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
The best video is the memory in your own mind of a wonderful ski. Not saying that videoing is wrong at all, but in other applications people are so busy staring at 'the event' through a camera viewfinder they miss out truly on what they are supposed to be watching.
ski holidays     
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
JamLala wrote:
flaming wrote:
I'd just add, work out why you're making the film.

Do you actually want other people to view it, or is it mostly just for you to watch when you're having a crappy day at work and want to be whisked back to the mountains? They'll be different films I think.

Also, why are you putting music to your video? Is is just because the audio that comes out of a gopro in a case is a bit rubbish? If so, consider something like this.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FWV8KDK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=amz07b-21

Here's a video I made recently - shot from 2 cameras, one (mine) with the fluffy cover, and one without. I've got the green/blue skis. The difference is astounding once we're skiing at speed, totally kills that annoying gopro whistle. I'm totally sold on the concept, plus the insulation made the battery last a lot longer in the cold! I'm also a big fan of keeping the clips short unless there's a real reason to show a long pitch.


http://youtube.com/v/S6Q5Us2xFpw

Great video, the snow looks wonderful. The last 3 seconds are very funny!


Thanks! I got round to making the full video.


http://youtube.com/v/7r05mmTNPdg
snow conditions     
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
JamLala wrote:
The best video is the memory in your own mind of a wonderful ski. Not saying that videoing is wrong at all, but in other applications people are so busy staring at 'the event' through a camera viewfinder they miss out truly on what they are supposed to be watching.


That's why a GoPro is quite good, you can just point and leave it going. There are things in the videos that I've done which I'd long forgotten and it's nice to have a reminder of them. It's not like the numpties at festivals that record grainy videos with bad sound that they'll never watch again Very Happy
snow conditions     
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The way that I make my ski videos is that I pick the song first then make everything fit that. Doing it this way is much easier in my opinion. As the beat/tempo picks up on the song try and match that with some footage that you have. Also try and make the words from the song match the still images and video. Here is my attempt from a few years ago.


http://youtube.com/v/2EdgwCn5rZE
ski holidays     
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@flaming, no music Sad
Gotta get some music going in there... It really does help to keep interest and the continuity going.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@flangesax, I think there's a place for both. Here's a couple I did with music.


http://youtube.com/v/lEkSwlAPWfE


http://youtube.com/v/c38BBJWiIyw
ski holidays     
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Arctic Roll wrote:
@Tiesto, just for comparison ("I took 7 hours of video") ...

Even 'cheap' -eg student films from the NFTS - will shoot at a ratio of 35:1 ie 35 mins in the can will result in 1 min on screen. Hollywood can be 100+:1 (think about that for a moment - 100 minutes of "action.... cut" for every 1 minute on screen... and that's not including all the rehearsals, and blocking, and lighting, and makeup, and set dressing, and script-writing, and and and. Want to know where the money goes when making a blockbuster?!)

Obviously with gopro / phone you can extend that ratio to "huge", as the process and costs are much lower and you're are probably shooting a lot more speculatively than film-makers with a storyboard to follow (even if you are not doing multiple takes of the same shot).

So the message is: editing is the key. Be prepared to spend a lot longer on the keyboard than on the piste!


To be honest this is pretty much the first thing I was taught at college, and immediately reiterated on my work experience with BBC Post Production. Be ruthless, last thing I did it took 10 hours filming for a 10 min video. And that was with footage I'd rather not have edited in.
ski holidays     
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
To be honest I've given up using my gopro for the moment. Unless you are doing some pretty impressive stuff it just wasn't worth the hassle. The mountain looked pretty flat unless I spent a while figuring out each shot (even Mr Thovax suffers from this), I was also using the chest mount, which isn't the best for skiing anyway. Whilst the footage is a great memory aid it slowed down / broke up the whole ski day too much for me.

Following people was probably the most interesting, and I was working up to doing a pole attachment so I could see a bit of myself, but the average effort required over a day could just be used zipping down two or three extra runs which is a lot of ski time when you only go one week a year. Disappearing off to fiddle about with the camera every evening wasn't a great way to enjoy apres either!

Maybe when I'm a better skier I'll go back... but so far the most interesting parts of my footage have been the falls!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

http://youtube.com/v/EMVPpPE_Bx4&t=68s
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Editing the vid is quite a nice way to extend the holiday. It's also creative and a lot of us need more of that in our lives Cool

Seeing yourself skiing on video can also be a boost to you confidence and a great way to self analyse technique and of course STYLE which is sometimes forgotten. Skiing has a lot in common with dance snowHead
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Ricklovesthepowder wrote:
The way that I make my ski videos is that I pick the song first then make everything fit that. Doing it this way is much easier in my opinion. As the beat/tempo picks up on the song try and match that with some footage that you have. Also try and make the words from the song match the still images and video. Here is my attempt from a few years ago.


http://youtube.com/v/2EdgwCn5rZE

That's the best video in this thread.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Peter S wrote:
Editing the vid is quite a nice way to extend the holiday. It's also creative and a lot of us need more of that in our lives Cool

Seeing yourself skiing on video can also be a boost to you confidence and a great way to self analyse technique and of course STYLE which is sometimes forgotten. Skiing has a lot in common with dance snowHead

Agree with both statements.
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I don't want to get into a big debate on 4K v's 1080 but what are you guys who shoot in anything abouve full HD using to edit the videos? I've tried to edit some H264 2.7K video on my laptop (haswell i7 3.9Ghz quad core) and it struggles like crazy to process the higher resolution film.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@blacksheep, what GPU are you running? I'd have thought the processor is man enough so might be down to graphics card*



*note: I'm not techy, these are words that I've overheard.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
It's a 3D CAD laptop so running an nVidia K2100M, it's a pretty decent spec machine. 16GB RAM + 512GB SSD. I wondered if it was codec related.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
blacksheep wrote:
I don't want to get into a big debate on 4K v's 1080 but what are you guys who shoot in anything abouve full HD using to edit the videos? I've tried to edit some H264 2.7K video on my laptop (haswell i7 3.9Ghz quad core) and it struggles like crazy to process the higher resolution film.
Mostly on a Mac Pro (3.7 GHz Quad E5) which seems to run at least a couple of 4K streams at the same time. Also use my MacBook Pro (2,6GHz Core i5) which handles 4K fine, unless I leave a bunch of other apps open.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@blacksheep, I used to use a laptop but now have a beefed up desktop - partly for the reason of editing videos.
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