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Go Pros etc - Is it Just Me?

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Don't get me wrong, I love watching sking and mountain sports videos but is it just me, or has anybody else now seen as much Go Pro-type 'self-shot with a stick' footage as they need to of skiers and boarders?

I just don't get the 'Here's me, from the waist up, out skiing' thing. You can't see any views, or in fact really see anything much at all... Confused

Still, each to their own and all that wink .
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mountainaddict, yup, I'm with you. All of the faffing about, before, during and then editing etc is really not worth the hassle. Just go and have some fun.
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+1 agree. although I own a older version, its just catching dust now.
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I may be old fashioned but people seem to do things now just to get the selfie/facebook/gopro shots to show how wonderful they are on social networking sites. They have lost how to live in the moment and just enjoy and experience what is happening. The worst bit is at concerts where the focus is on filming the event rather than enjoying it.

Besides, when I took my gopro out it all looked pretty rubbish afterwards. Those vertical slopes look like gentle rolling dales, my smooth carving looks like all the before shots used in training sales pitches.
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On any videos (not just skiing) too much footage from one viewpoint will always get dull - mixing up the viewpoint/angle/mounting positions in short quick sequences will make for a more entertaining (or least bearable) videos.

Just a personal opinion, like you say....
mountainaddict wrote:

Still, each to their own and all that wink .
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I'm always amused by how little first person filming actually features in the publicity for mini cameras.
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+1 on the go pro type cameras, I guess there a nice thing to bring out 1 day per ski trip, particularly if kids are learning to ski, etc but to be used sparingly regardless......
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I would actually love to own one, as I love the kind of 'fish eye' perspective they have, and the quality of the video/picture is awesome... However, my ilife, and trips, are far too boring (from a do I want to video it point of view) to consider owning one... I love to ride and have fun, but would I want to sit at night watching it all back... NOPE... Would rather hit the bar and down some beers and actually talk to my mates...
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i've got a sony action cam.... i haven't done any action with it yet!
I have used it for time lapse photography though!

(
http://youtube.com/v/FiQX9zkZ7q0&list=UUwakJxAVVSBK6l6fJESN8uA )

( http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x27w25i_a-concert-for-keith-time-lapsed_creation )
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mountainaddict wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I love watching sking and mountain sports videos but is it just me, or has anybody else now seen as much Go Pro-type 'self-shot with a stick' footage as they need to of skiers and boarders?

I just don't get the 'Here's me, from the waist up, out skiing' thing. You can't see any views, or in fact really see anything much at all... Confused

Still, each to their own and all that wink .


I started adding videos to my Hokkaido posts for a number of reasons:

1. As a teaching tool primarily for my students. But I've referenced a couple of my vids in franzClammer's post.

2. As a memento of the ski day for the people I ski with and/or teach.

3. For 'evidence'. Called out too many times that I cherry pick my still shots even when there's no powder.


As an example here's Ian skiing a line for a still shot and I took video as well






http://youtube.com/v/q3sSKxc6N-A



And with a couple of different camera angles the POV cameras do well I think.

Ian & I were happy with this effort


http://youtube.com/v/ew5K0sflLqg
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Well I love my Go Pros- my job for the week sking is to film people in the group and make a movie of the whole trip. All good fun, but it is nice to not film and concentrate on the moment. Mounting the cameras anywhere but the helmet makes for interesting viewpoints.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Would'nt want to fall straight onto one as per Michael Schumacher!
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emwmarine wrote:
I may be old fashioned but people seem to do things now just to get the selfie/facebook/gopro shots to show how wonderful they are on social networking sites. They have lost how to live in the moment and just enjoy and experience what is happening. The worst bit is at concerts where the focus is on filming the event rather than enjoying it.


Actually I think that's one of the better things about GoPros. Setting up to film properly MASSIVELY detracts from the experience. For simple POV stuff though you just turn it on and forget about it. The resultant footage is obviously nowhere near as interesting though.
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You know it makes sense.
Following Juilia Mancuso on Facebook, I may be beginning to see the point of gopros Shocked
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Arno wrote:
Following Juilia Mancuso on Facebook, I may be beginning to see the point of gopros Shocked


?? I don't get it?

On the subject though the main reason i'm looking at getting one is so that me and the Mrs can go out somewhere and improve our skiing by actually seeing what we really look like.
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Arno, Laughing true
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wonderwoman!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Levi215 wrote:
On the subject though the main reason i'm looking at getting one is so that me and the Mrs can go out somewhere and improve our skiing by actually seeing what we really look like.
I think GoPros (any action camera in fact) is quite poor for generating video to analyse your skiing with. You either film from a stationary position and the lack of a zoom lens means for the majority of the time the skier is just a small dot in the distance, or you try to video someone by following them and you are bouncing around so much it's difficult to work out what movements the skier is making. A cheap camcorder with a zoom lens is a much, much better option if you are mainly interested in getting footage for video analysis of your skiing.
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rob@rar wrote:
Levi215 wrote:
On the subject though the main reason i'm looking at getting one is so that me and the Mrs can go out somewhere and improve our skiing by actually seeing what we really look like.
I think GoPros (any action camera in fact) is quite poor for generating video to analyse your skiing with. You either film from a stationary position and the lack of a zoom lens means for the majority of the time the skier is just a small dot in the distance, or you try to video someone by following them and you are bouncing around so much it's difficult to work out what movements the skier is making. A cheap camcorder with a zoom lens is a much, much better option if you are mainly interested in getting footage for video analysis of your skiing.


Not quite what you're talking about but Mancusco actually mentioned sticking one to the front of the skis to analyse alignment and position in turns. The vibration must be ridiculous and of course I guess hers wouldn't have to brave a lift queue.

The link is too complicated to embed, but click here for the idea:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/p403x403/10701924_10152299649942693_8729465804182708181_n.jpg?oh=aab99fe07538c3f1f1319ad3b179845b&oe=54F64CEA&__gda__=1420498707_98050a1ead98926e5a516ea09ce11649
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albinomountainbadger, sure, different perspectives can be useful. But for a traditional location of a helmet cam (i.e., the helmet) I think there's little value to be gained in terms of motion analysis for typical recreational skiers. And while I don't like to be cynical, I'm sure Mancuso's sponsorship from GoPro means that Facebook posts like that one are a necessary part of her contract. She will be receiving huge quantities of feedback from coaches, side of the course videos, timing, etc, etc, and quite possibly an unusually mounted GoPro provides a small part of a complex feedback jigsaw, focusing on one, very technical, aspect of her skiing..
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albinomountainbadger, those pics are almost a good as the wonderwoman ones wink don't know from a coaching point of view but just a cool perspective
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I think the most recent generation of GoPros are great for getting unusual angle photos, and their stills performance is now excellent. I did a little bit of jetskiing this summer and strapped a GoPro to my wrist for stills and video. Video wasn't up to much, but I was really happy with some of the stills taken (set on auto to take a shot every 10 seconds).
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Very cynical rob@rar, I guess you think she's only getting her kit off for publicity too! Little Angel

A friend has seen his business dramatically changed in just two years by these cameras though, he runs a bungee jump affair and a boat-parachute thing where carrying a normal camera would obviously be impossible. I worked for him once holding an old-school camcorder at the bottom of the jump to film but the result was pretty awful compared to the GoPros people take up now. For the parachute they attach it to the bar and just let it take photos but on the bungee he has fashioned a sort of claw to hold the camera safely in their hand while let the rider move it around at the same time.

Oh if anyone is wondering what happens when someone lets go of a GoPro from 50m in the air while moving at 120km/h then don't test with your own, I can assure you it breaks.
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albinomountainbadger wrote:
Very cynical rob@rar, I guess you think she's only getting her kit off for publicity too! Little Angel
No, I'm sure she's doing that just because she likes to, and she's thinking of me when she does it.

albinomountainbadger wrote:
... holding an old-school camcorder at the bottom of the jump to film but the result was pretty awful compared to the GoPros people take up now.
I think GoPros are great for some things (I'm on to my third helmetcam now, and before that used a little bulletcam connected to a standard camcorder), but if, as Levi215 suggested, it's mainly for motion analysis there are better and cheaper options.
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flangesax wrote:
i've got a sony action cam.... i haven't done any action with it yet!
I have used it for time lapse photography though!

(
http://youtube.com/v/FiQX9zkZ7q0&list=UUwakJxAVVSBK6l6fJESN8uA )

( http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x27w25i_a-concert-for-keith-time-lapsed_creation )


ah cool, time lapse. I did a couple over the summer but wasn't too happy with the results


http://youtube.com/v/tQZI1ykDIRo?list=UUXnldpJFGoEOwz4mRqsJ18g


http://youtube.com/v/Ylc_wYckdZM?list=UUXnldpJFGoEOwz4mRqsJ18g
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I think it's just you. Well, you and people like you, obviously. There's nothing wrong with that, but personally I really like GoPro cameras, I'm glad they're here.

My reasons:
(1) Video shows what riding powder is like way better than I could ever do with stills.
(2) I can now demonstrate that I don't do most people think snowboarders do.
(3) I can look at other peoples' video on the net and know that I'm talking to someone who bothered to learn to ride. Or not.

If you think people are going to stop shooting and showing "ego video" anytime soon then I think you may find people don't work the way you think they do.
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rob@rar, so what do you think about the franz thread in that case? A lot of courses seem to promote video analysis... Are they all using zooms?
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Levi215, when I look at the videos in the FC thread I'm frequently frustrated by not being able to see clearly what I'm looking for. I use video all the time when I'm teaching, it's an invaluable tool. I'd like nothing better than to have a camera fixed to my forehead and an on/off button on my wrist as it would be brilliantly convenient, but the nature of the video is too badly compromised if you want to use it for video analysis, IMO and IME. So I use a cheap camcorder with a long zoom lens and decent image stabilisation. I'm able to get a reasonably steady image and fill the frame with the skier from about 100m above me to 100m below me, which isn't possible with an action camera. It's more of a pain using a camcorder, quite literally when it's very cold and I have to take a ski glove off, but it produces usable video footage.
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Quote:
They have lost how to live in the moment and just enjoy and experience what is happening. The worst bit is at concerts where the focus is on filming the event rather than enjoying it.
Er, I can assure you that was nothing like me watching the Tour de France pass in 10 seconds flat on the Yorkshire Grand Depart this summer Embarassed Laughing. (Got some great stills though wink )

Quote:
I think it's just you. Well, you and people like you, obviously. There's nothing wrong with that, but personally I really like GoPro cameras, I'm glad they're here. My reasons:
(1) Video shows what riding powder is like way better than I could ever do with stills.
(2) I can now demonstrate that I don't do most people think snowboarders do.
(3) I can look at other peoples' video on the net and know that I'm talking to someone who bothered to learn to ride. Or not.

I think you've missed my point - which was that it's the 5 minute view of somebody's upper body/head that I find pointless and irritating. IMO that doesn't show what riding powder is like and doesn't show whether someone can ski or not (sorry, I don't board) as I can't see their legs. (I don't understand your point 2 - I assume there's a word or two missing?)

So I'm not saying I dislike GoPros (or video cameras) per se - just the aforementioned front view from a one foot long stick perspective. In fact I love watching short ski films/holiday videos set to music on You Tube - would love to do one myself but am such a dinosaur/luddite that I wouldn't know where to start (apart from filming some action and nice scenery Laughing)....
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You've been unfairly maligned. I think the pole cam is a bit overdone as well. It sells tree skiing well but that's about it.

Also +1 on the power of GoPro to show you anything useful that Rob mentions.
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I agree with the op, most go pro posters are shite,,,,,,, ( oops should I have said just not great?)I look up a resort, and get lots of go pro crap to go through, and this thread is proof of it, I had said I would like one, now I think my phone will do the trick for the times when I ski something weird............last year dh said to me watch to go pro helm cams, down an easy route make it look hard..... he was so right
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philwig wrote:
If you think people are going to stop shooting and showing "ego video" anytime soon then I think you may find people don't work the way you think they do.


I'm not expecting world peace any time soon either. No I'm not expecting people to stop posting GoPro footage. Doesn't stop 99.99% of it being dull, dull, dull.
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Point 2: many people appear to believe snowboarders do aerial ballet off skateboard style ramps.


The vast majority of stills are equally "dull". If all you're saying is that you need to be selective, there's not much debate to be had there.

You will see stills where people cut off people at the knees, but not so many where you cut their head off too. I think that's because video is harder to shoot, and also lack of basic ability. Perhaps it's also because the technology is relatively new to some people - they are simply amazed that: (a) they can ride at all; and (b) that they can shoot themselves doing it. Once they get over (b), and those cameras will most likely gather dust I'd expect.

I do find it amazing that people cut heads and boards out of their riding shots.
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Some of the posters have covered the various problems.

Filming good sequences takes time to set up and takes cooperative and good skiers/boarders. You rarely have these outside of pro or motivated amateurs.

For an hour of film you may chuck 95% of it on the "cutting room floor". Most amateurs don't know how to edit and you get lots of boring filler. Some pros over edit, it is frustrating that you rarely see a jump landed even if the skier did end in a pile. Too many 2 second cuts and overly loud pumping musaak ruins many a good ski movie. The good movies where you see longer sequences well skied are few and far between, which is why they are stand-out films.

As for self shots, keep them for yer mum. And most of the helmet cam footage is off a pair of spatulas waggling down a pedestrian slope. Not interesting guys.
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A good GoPro skiing edit is not one with just one camera mount/angle. Personally, I think that to get the best footage you really need someone else to film you i.e. with a go pro on a pole - which is upside down to give it more stability. Although, it is also key to use a few different mounts like the headcam, chesty or face shot. But trying not to overuse any one of them as it can make for a very boring film. My personal favourites include :
http://youtube.com/v/bOstMd4hlH0
http://youtube.com/v/s5E7yDXUgiw&list=UUtcFmEDPjqIB0pUZJCJF2IQ
http://youtube.com/v/JTrnBd4jWAs
http://youtube.com/v/aOtHgDXhgyE
http://youtube.com/v/vptvSMdYJdQ

Smile
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The music is the bit that annoys me, usually.

(Un-)Fortunately GEMA (the German music cartel that is constitutionally allowed to assume all copyright collection rights on all music, regardless if the composer is a member of the cartel or not) blocks* about 90% of all Youtube vids that sound like they might have music in.

In general I see that as a warning that the Go-Pro-er is trying to force their (5h1t) taste in music on me, and a warning that the vid was probably 5h1t too. So saves 3 minutes of my life.

MTB vids with music are worst for this. Music can hide rattly cameras, but it can't hide 5h1t footage.

(* iirc Germany is about 3rd in the world for the most number of blocked YouTubes, behind North Korea and Iran)
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Mike Pow wrote:

I started adding videos to my Hokkaido posts for a number of reasons:

1. As a teaching tool primarily for my students. But I've referenced a couple of my vids in franzClammer's post.



I think watching yourself ski is the best way to see your mistakes. But that's not GoPro footage usually, I guess. I used a GoPro once, forgot to turn it off and mostly I got footage of myself on a chair, walking to the loo and then in the loo.
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EuanFraser, Some sweet edits dude... Love the DEEP powder video... I think you can't beat the quality from a GoPro... However, the average owner now does not record and edit vids like you... They are piste riding and largely pretty boring... My level of riding is not good enough to bother filming, and with a broken ankle, it anti gonna improve much this season either Sad

I'll stick to watching other people's vids, but only the worthy ones... Smile
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I agree with video selfies with a camera on a pole - very tedious and narcissistic - as I said in another thread. But I like footage following other skiers in good conditions on interesting terrain - you get a bit of the camera man and plenty of the action in front.
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Thanks AlpineAddict, they arent mine! But thanks, I wish I could record and edit videos like those.. I have a broken ankle at the moment too due to a rugby injury and had two screws put in. Hopefully will be skiing in February, just bought a pair of 172 scoot rooks can't wait Smile
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