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Things to invent

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Things to invent

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
As we know from time to time we get a pHD student arrive and say that they want to design a piece of kit to aid snowsports. Having read yet another thread about a damaged ACL I think we should suggest to the next Dragon's Den type to arrive on the scene that something needs inventing to protect the ACL when skiing - yes, I know Masque will say that fitness is the key, but surely there must be a physical device that could be developed and be light & comfy enough to wear that would protect snow users ACLs - I know I am starting to live in fear of damaging mine!!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Neoprene knee brace with two lateral metal supports
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum wrote:
surely there must be a physical device that could be developed and be light & comfy enough to wear that would protect snow users ACLs - I know I am starting to live in fear of damaging mine!!


Easy: take up snowboarding Little Angel
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Join your local running club. Toofy Grin

snowHead
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Chris Wood741, Or knitting club... I hear the blue rinse brigade's ACL risks are considerably lowered since they increased the DIN settings on their needles. wink
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Megamum, Actually no, not this time. While fitness is a significant part of skiing with personal safety in mind I will ALWAYS say that technique should have the greater emphasis as it's falling that's the usual cause of self-inflicted injury.

After I got my Achilles repair (non-released ski) and got back onto skis (then later board) I backed my DIN off to the minimum 4 on nose and tail. If I put a little effort into it could virtually walk out my skis and I had quite a few releases. So I concentrated on my balance and body position, felt how I was putting force through my skis and the releases reduced and stopped. All because I worked to persuade my skis to turn and not force them to. To prepare for my next turn not concentrate on not screwing up the current one. I now ski relatively smoothly and quite quickly and have never needed to wind the release past 5 on piste. Off, if it's rough, chopped up and soggy then 6 and no more.

I personally believe that far too many skiers are sliding on way higher settings than they need and do from some misplaced fear that your skis coming off is a bad thing. Especially in the early learning stage. Also as a self development tool for progressing skiers, If your ski comes off you've usually done summat wrong, work out what it was and try not to do it again.

Queue howls of protest Twisted Evil

And now I telemark rolling eyes
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Friend of mine did his ACL... doing the laundry! Think he's had 2 knee clean-up ops, but won't fix ACL since the only sport he'd do is Darts (BDO not splitter's darts). Not sure I can get him to take up knitting.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
All of the good female skiers that I know have had at least one ACL reconstruction so anything that keeps them in the kitchen should do.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Masque, I also have seen more folk leaning back, esp off piste, combine that with a high DIN release and your going to get more ACL injuries...
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Schuss in Boots wrote:
Chris Wood741, Or knitting club... I hear the blue rinse brigade's ACL risks are considerably lowered since they increased the DIN settings on their needles. wink


Yes Schuss, but the knitting brigade don't use their knees (in fact they can knit with out knees).

Laughing


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 3-01-13 19:22; edited 1 time in total
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Masque, totally agree. Shocked


wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Most people seem to do them in slower falls in deeper or heavier snow that I have seen. If you ski faster and crash more impressively your ACL should remain safe Little Angel Little Angel Twisted Evil
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Are adults more prone to the injury than kids? I have seen countless tales of adults suffering the injury on SH's, but can't think of any where I've seen it reported for a pre-teen by their parents on here.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Kids bounce, right up to the age....they stop bouncing! Toofy Grin
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Megamum wrote:
Are adults more prone to the injury than kids?


Yes
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Megamum wrote:
I know I am starting to live in fear of damaging mine!!


Surest way to damage it...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
gatecrasher, You never stop bouncing . . . but for us it's called a 'dead cat' bounce Sad
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Masque, I kind of roll! Embarassed
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
Scarpa, You're dead right. In all my skiing I hit the white stuff quite regularly but I only remember knee pain twice. Both times at very slow speed when I twisted one way and one ski went the other. Once stepping off a path and leaving the other leg there and another time when I was sideswiped by a boarder while practically stationary. Both times I wished I had a remote release mechanism I could trigger!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
betterinblack, why? Assuming it is not all down to 'bounce' after all they frequently ski in the back seat to enable them to go faster, and this was cited above as contributing to ACL injuries.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Megamum, to hazard a guess, the older you get the less fit you are and less strength your ligaments have
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
And likely have more weight to carry!.....
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Inertial forces are logarithmic as mass increases . . . that's why a kid can fall out of a tree and run inside screaming for their mum and we just lay there too boogered to even groan for help.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Masque, OK, that's a better explanation than 'bounce' though I guess it is effectively the same thing. When I fell off the horse I def.
Quote:

lay there too boogered to even groan for help.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
In addition to the "bounce" factor, the ligaments have more elasticity while they are still growing, so can take the strain just a bit more.

And I suspect that fear plays a part too - you are more likely to damage your ACL in attempting to avoid a fall than if you just let it happen, the kids aren't as afraid of falling.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
ACLs. Avalanches. Skier's thumb. Head injury. Many other kinds of injury. Airplane crash

When you come home from ski hol in one piece you can let out a deserved sigh of relief and be glad you're home

Seriously though, why are people who are afraid of injuries most likely to be injured?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
patricksh wrote:
ACLs. Avalanches. Skier's thumb. Head injury. Many other kinds of injury. Airplane crash

When you come home from ski hol in one piece you can let out a deserved sigh of relief and be glad you're home

Seriously though, why are people who are afraid of injuries most likely to be injured?
patricksh, The only thing I'd say is that fear does some funny things to our bodies, most of which aren't necessarily helpful when skiing, we've all learnt to walk down hills etc in a predominantly vertical position, if we start to slip, our natural instinct is to lean away from danger, not to throw ourselves further towards it, we need to lose this fear or self preservation instinct when skiing, leaning away, turning away, or not looking towards the fear/down the hill, can have a lot of negative effects on the body position.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
patricksh wrote:

Seriously though, why are people who are afraid of injuries most likely to be injured?


I'm not at all sure that is true as a general thing.

But some injuries are more likely to be caused by the type of fall you have if you are trying to avoid it than by the type of fall you have no chance to avoid - or if you don't try to, but just let it happen.

And ACLs are a case in point, because of the fact there is some elasticity in the ligament, a (very) short high strain will not snap it, while a longer lasting strain at a much lower level will, so it is the slow twisting falls that blow ACLs much more often than high speed crashes.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
alex_heney, Much of the issue is that as we age we become more wary and afraid of hurt and pain. We instinctively tense our body applying an initial tension within our mechanical system. Children don't do this. Add their inherent short levers and flexibility, lower tensile rigidity in their skeleton and you begin to see why we get hurt and kids just get up, grin and head off down the hill.

You should all be in yoga classes if you want to stop getting injured. . . . That and learn to ski better Twisted Evil

Oh and learn to fall properly . . . sticking your hands out is a major nono
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Masque wrote:
alex_heney,
Oh and learn to fall properly . . . sticking your hands out is a major nono



So we are back to rolling then! wink Laughing Embarassed
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
gatecrasher, essentially no. You fall with your arms crossed in front of you supporting and protecting chest and shoulder area. Will also protect you from your poles as they will bend easily. There are a whole list of reasons why this all comes together with self arrest techniques etc.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Masque wrote:


Oh and learn to fall properly . . . sticking your hands out is a major nono



Or trying to save it when you know you are falling and you won't recover. Chuck yourself head first, preferably sideways down the slope. Worst case, you break a collar bone, which will heal itself in 6 weeks. Try and save it, boots will look after your ankles and your knees are the weakest link.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Masque, remember those toy cars that you used to push towards the skirting board that would just explode into many pieces on impact!




Embarassed
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
gatecrasher, At my last firm I joined the medical insurance scheme and it didn't require a physical, great. But a few months later I had to renew my driving physical so off they send me to the authorized ME to see if I was fit to drive . . . I had to ask for another sheet of paper to complete the prior-injuries section on the form. Got in to see the doc and he looked at my form and looked at me and said "I bet you're voting for ObamaCare"

That little toy car . . . that's me some day Evil or Very Mad But I was competitive on trampoline and (poor gymnast) almost made the cut for a national tryout maaaaany years ago and I still know how to hit the ground hard without doing much damage unless I run into a solid object.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Strengthen the big muscles above and below the knee, that will generally help. Supports/braces do the work and eventually weaken things. The right stumble while walking down the street can damage your cruciates - I damaged my left playing football (proper football Toofy Grin ) and my right playing rugby (actually my foot planted into a divot on the pitch whilst bearing down on the out half at full speed, I went down like I'd been shot, not my finest hour).

Skiing has only made my knees ache a bit - so you're ignoring bigger markets, I'm out!
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Masque, Laughing Laughing

There's another snowHead (remains nameless) who also does a pretty good job of dramatic but mostly injury free displays around these parts! wink
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum, I think for kids 'they bounce better' is correct. That being said The flying bogee (who at 15 really feels he needs a new moniker) 'did' his knee in a slow fall on deep slush the first time he went skiing when he was 5. Blew up significantly in size and it was a good 4 weeks before he could use it fully with no discomfort, so kids do (or at least this one did) incur joint injury TFG clearly just stretched things and recovered with little intervention (GP = strap it and give him some calpol) but suspect that the same fall would have had many an adult with the knee doc and out of action much longer term.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I am sure working on your fitness can only help, as many posters pointed out. However, take care. The only skiing related damage I have done to myself thus far is because of overenthusiastic strength work before going skiing- I blame lunges in particular. Do pre-skiing resistance work with wrong technique and if definitely can hurt your knees or back or other.

I think Masque is right that too many of us focus on brute strength rather than technique
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Masque,

Quote:

Inertial forces are logarithmic as mass increases


Somebody should tell Dr Newton, because he thinks force is proportional to mass.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Crying or Very sad Had the phone call last night from my lad in La Tania looks like ACL, not sure how bad yet, but he does have hyper mobility in his joints so we have heard all this before from the doctors on the first scan and then a couple of weeks later WOW it looks OK, fingers crossed its not a season ender for him.
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