Being less rubbish at skiing. A masterplan. Anyone got any ideas?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Pedantica, It's an essential skill.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar, it has its downsides, though: "ugh, that bloody woman, I've told her 20 times not to do that, and she's still doing it" etc.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
moffatross, They must be doing something wrong then:) Plus bombing down GS-style with fancy pole plants doesn't amount to having a good piste form. Other aspects of their skiing should be looked at if they found themselves out of their depth off-piste. There is a saying "It's not that you can't ski ungroomed, it's that you can't ski and ungroomed terrain proves it", but a good instructor if you tell him you want to be good off-piste will first look at your skiing on piste, and not just carving because this is very easy, he'll make you go slow too as speed masks many faults and depending on what he sees might keep you on piste for a day or two with short forrays off piste so that the skier could see how good piste form translates there. Because a good form always does.
ALQ, you make a lot of excuses for remaining a "lower intermediate".
Golf is Golf, for the most part a closed skill sport. Practice, Practice and more practice. Boring! Golf has a cheat system, a "Handicap".
Skiing is Skiing, for the most part and open-skill sport. Experience, feel, understanding. Exciting! The mountain never lies, you can or you can't.
When you watch skiers skiing you look for stance, leg work, use of both skis to initiate, control, and finish the turn, and fluidity of movement. Watch Mayer in the clip even when he's doing the daft drills he remains relaxed, and quiet in upper the body. You gotta work out what he's doing to achieve this, why there's no over-rotation, what's he doing to the skis to make sure they are pressured and on their edge, and how he angulates his knees/legs throughout his skiing to control the skis their whole length. Simples!
I take it you're not a Visual/Kinaesthetic Learner!
Not really into the levels thing anymore....I just want to be in the mountains more and ski good
I'd just like to ski like in the clip at the bottom.
I had a similar experience to Robr@r with an instructor who just said 'Allez'. After a long break, I've been fortunate to have met several very good instructors (and, as importantly for me, good group mates) who helped a great deal with specifics that I will keep practicing (I geekily wrote them down). I have some "daft drills" in mind that I'm planning to use at HH in a few weeks time and I don't find them boring at all.
I don't know if I'm a Kinaesthetic learner. I will say that getting out of the comfort zone is a game-changer and recommend all instructors to push their clients as Wayne did with us. The reason we're in a class is coz we want to improve, somehow, despite our own reservations.
But this is not about my skiing! What would you say to Juggler after seeing his video?
Would you NOT give him drills to do?
a good instructor if you tell him you want to be good off-piste will first look at your skiing on piste
I've had several 2 hour "off-piste" lessons with a French instructor, who I know quite well. We always do quite a bit on-piste, to try to get me into doing the right kind of thing. With limited success, but I genuinely think that's my fault, not his.
ALQ, Juggler is fairly competent, his stance is a little narrow and I suspect he learnt his skills a few years back. He's frequently too upright and loses the pressure to carve the front end of the skis, although he's smooth and glides quite well his hands are often "lazy", that is around the level of his waist thus contributing to the upright stance. I'd say he needs to get both his hands a good deal more forward, pressure the tops of his boots so that his stance becomes the more forward and his weight on the balls of his feet. Widen the distance between his skis to allow greater angulation from the knees to set the ski edges the more. Finally don't forget to finish of the turn.
£50 please!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
skimastaaah, so you tell him all those things and suddenly he changes. Is that how it works?
After all it is free
After all it is free
rob@rar wrote:
skimastaaah, so you tell him all those things and suddenly he changes. Is that how it works?
No no no.
Having seen the video, and from his observations whilst in the DMC, he will have fixed all that stuff already.
Cool little vid though - did you do it yourselves or was some pro mob at Flaine?
Snow looks good, have to say I think the GM is real good fun place to ski.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Having just watched again was the overhead footage shot by the parascender?
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
rob@rar wrote:
skimastaaah, so you tell him all those things and suddenly he changes. Is that how it works?
I was being nice.
He's aware he's being filmed, wants to look cool and he's posing. Dump the back-pack, drop the mid-fats and get some decent piste skis, and work much harder at completed fall-line turns. Nice video, shame about the skiing.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
skimastaaah, so how would you get him to change?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
dobby, A little bit of thread drift here A lot of chatter about carving and such like, none of which will really help answer your original question about getting better.
Thanks for posting your video: I have a couple of observations:
If you watch your path down the slope you will see you descend in a series of traverses (straight lines across the slope) and then make rapid aggressive turns linking into the next traverse. This gives a very 'Z' shape to your path. I don’t think you are actually afraid of speed as such but you are afraid of the feeling of acceleration in the fall line (when your skis are pointing straight down the slope) This is especially apparent on the steeper section at the beginning of the video.
-If you can work on improving your turn shape you will remove that feeling of acceleration and then braking that you get from the ‘Z’ shaped turns you are making at the moment. Aim for nice flowing ‘S’ shaped turns in which you are steering the skis all the time, not just rushing a turn to avoid time in the falline
If you freeze frame at 8 seconds and 17 seconds you will see your posture and your weight being quite a way back on the ski, you will see the effect of this at 16 seconds where the entire front of your inner ski comes off the slope. The reason for the’ back seat’ posture appears to be a lack of ankle flex. In some of your traverses you have a nice posture but as your skis turn into the fall line you fail to compensate for the increasing apparent steepness of the slope by increasing your ankle flex.
-If you have someone that can help you stand with your skis across the falline and get into a nice posture, flex your feet in the boots and wiggle your toes, let your feet feel ‘soft’ and move your weight back and forward till you feel your weight nicely balanced over the whole of your foot. Closing your eyes can help heighten this sensation. Once you are happy with the feeling of your weight balanced nicely over your whole foot get your helper to rotate your skis into the falline and hold the tips for you. What has happened to the weight balance on your feet? You will find that to regain that balanced feeling you have to increase your ankle flex and also compensate with more knee and hip flex if your weight is going to stay centered on the skis. Remember that feeling of increasing and decreasing your flex as the ‘apparent’ slope steepness changes under your skis as you turn from the fallline across the hill and back.
Your upper body posture is very static, This is in part due to the lack of flex you have in the turns but you also follow the direction of your skis very rigidly with your torso and head. Try looking more down the fallline and less at the snow directly in front of your skis to start with and then maybe look at doing some drills to increase your separation.
What is important is not to try to run before you can walk, trying to carve your skis at this point in your sking will not do anything but get you into bad habits that will stay with you. As Rob says practice makes permanent, only proper practice makes perfect. If you have a dry slope near by join an improvers group if they have one and get out on the slope. Time with skis on is all valuable but don’t go too long between having contact with a good instructor to keep you on the right track.
Speed will come naturally as your skiing improves because you will feel more in control, you will be ‘skiing your skis’ and not them skiing you.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon Sep 10, 12 19:51; edited 1 time in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Kevin - in the interests of clarity - does 'more knee flex' mean bend your knees more?
It's not a particularly good example but sometimes instructors forget that students, particularly the inexperienced don't understand the terminology and are sometimes too intimidated to ask.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Fifespud, yep it does and yep i had fallen into instructor speak (gives self sharp slap) so ta for the comment as it is very true about people feeling intimidated to ask
Edid: although I am still looking to find another definition of flex....
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon Sep 10, 12 1:41; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Fifespud, oops, my bad. I was referencing the Flaine clip as my aim in terms of skiing rather than using levels as a guide (in response to skimastaaah). I like the skiers fluidity, balanced relaxed style and controlled speed. It may not be technically perfect, but looks like a lovely way to get down a mountain. GM is a great place and I did the Faust run many times...but not like that
It's a great vid and don't know why more resorts don't make such marketing videos.
Anyway, don't want to add to the thread drift, so I'll drop it.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
kevindonkleywood wrote:
Time with skis on is all valuable but don’t go too long between having contact with a good instructor to keep you on the right track.
+1
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ALQ wrote:
Fifespud, oops, my bad. I was referencing the Flaine clip as my aim in terms of skiing rather than using levels as a guide (in response to skimastaaah). I like the skiers fluidity, balanced relaxed style and controlled speed. It may not be technically perfect, but looks like a lovely way to get down a mountain. GM is a great place and I did the Faust run many times...but not like that
It's a great vid and don't know why more resorts don't make such marketing videos.
Anyway, don't want to add to the thread drift, so I'll drop it.
ALQ - no bad on your part - when I first really got into skiing I felt exactly as you describe. I used to think 'If I could only get down a mountain as smoothly and stylishly as him I will be totally satisfied and will never need another lesson'. (not that I am significantly better now than your man in the clip is, I hasten to add)
Next thing you know your 14 year old son is leading you into the Mont Fort cable car and you're 'needing the toilet'!
Back on thread, one of these week courses on your own is the way to go, if you can manage it.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skimastaaah,
Quote:
Golf has a cheat system, a "Handicap".
Slightly off topic but a cople of points the handicap is designed do the two people of different skill levels can enjoy playing each other competitively rather than being a cheat system though some people use it for this purpose.
More pertinently to learning it is a shame sking does not have something similar for this kind of conversation. The handicap is an objective and fairly reliable way of discussing and discovering where you are in terms of skill level in golf and can give you a real target for which to improve.
Saying you are handciap x and wish to get to handicap x-5 say gives the person or instructor you are talking too a real idea of your current abilities and how much you wish to improve. They can also give more accurate feedback on what you need to do to attain that target.
fear of falling (which I don't do v often...any more).
Here lies the problem
Anyone will learn quicker if they are skiing at the edge of their ability though there are many factors to consider around risk to oneself and others, if you tend to injure easily then falling is best avoided. Though I am generally USELESS at most sports, I am a strong level 9 skier partly because I am neither afraid or ashamed of falling,
If your'e not falling, your'e not trying
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
tangowaggon, If your'e not, what?
The apostrophe: the difference between a writer who knows its poo-poo and one who doesn't know it's poo-poo.
The apostrophe: the difference between a writer who knows its poo-poo and one who doesn't know it's poo-poo.
Under a new name,
You're quite right, the apostrophies are in the wrong place, thank you for correcting me in my misguided world, I may not know my poo-poo but I can spot a perdantic knob
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rob@rar wrote:
skimastaaah, so how would you get him to change?
I'd start by finding out when he wants to change.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon Sep 10, 12 10:35; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
T Bar, Saying you're a X-5 is saying nothing. Saying your tee shots are between 120-130 yards on a good day, and that you can't put backspin on a 5 iron shot, coupled with the fact you're a poo-poo putter is actually saying why you're a X-5.
The Golf Handicap system is for 19th hole bores who sound off as if they could beat Tiger Woods going downhill with the right wind. And wind is exactly what Golfers have by the shedload.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
skimastaaah wrote:
T Bar, Saying you're a X-5 is saying nothing. Saying your tee shots are between 120-130 yards on a good day, and that you can't put backspin on a 5 iron shot, coupled with the fact you're a poo-poo putter is actually saying why you're a X-5.
Not true if you listen to someone who thinks they are great they will tell you they rip it 300 yards of the tee chip to within six inches on a regular basis and sink putts better than the pros. You then hear they are off 24 and that tells you everything.
There is nothing equivalent that lets you know in skiing whether the illusion that you shredded that powder slope danced the moguls and then laid down some fast carves on the sheet ice is for real or self deception.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
skimastaaah wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
skimastaaah, so how would you get him to change?
I'd start by finding out when he wants to change.
OK, so say he wants to start to change his skiing immediately. You've identified what you think he could do, he has agreed those are good things to work towards. So how do you help him make those changes...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar wrote:
skimastaaah wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
skimastaaah, so how would you get him to change?
I'd start by finding out when he wants to change.
OK, so say he wants to start to change his skiing immediately. You've identified what you think he could do, he has agreed those are good things to work towards. So how do you help him make those changes...
.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon Sep 10, 12 10:36; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
skimastaaah, sorry mate, but have a proper go at answering the question. You believe "Just do, don't talk" is advice that people should pay for?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar wrote:
skimastaaah, sorry mate, but have a proper go at answering the question. You believe "Just do, don't talk" is advice that people should pay for?
.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Mon Sep 10, 12 10:36; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
skimastaaah, sorry mate, but I think we are on such different pages that we're never going to understand each other. I was hoping to read some interesting thoughts about how to help people become better skiers, but you don't seem to get past sloganising. I'm genuinely interested in different teaching styles, hence my questions, but you don't seem keen to elucidate. Shame.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
skimastaaah wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
skimastaaah, sorry mate, but have a proper go at answering the question. You believe "Just do, don't talk" is advice that people should pay for?
nope, and I've yet to get the cheques!
If you read some of my previous posts the point being made about experiential progress is valid.
Stop intellectualising, go do. Look at good skiers and understand why, not look at good skiers and try to understand why. Worlds apart.
Skiing is kinaesthetic dominant, .............. go do.
Eh?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Anybody know where Skimawhatsit works?
I'd like to ensure I don't inadvertently stumble in to one of his lessons!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Anybody know where Skimawhatsit works?
Dunno but I think the technique is called turning English into a foreign language.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
that delusional self image that says...... "I'm a great skier already!"
what a load of BS - sounds like computer-generated twaddle with which you answer any question. The OP is hardly deluding himself about being a great skier. He's looking for some help and useful suggestions.
pam w, for your information Pam I'm doing my M.Ed this year and my long study will be on "The Engaged Learner". as I'm still learning to teach, and still teaching to learn.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
skimastaaah wrote:
... that's exactly why I maintain the "time on snow" being best for experiential learning.
Is anyone suggesting "time off snow" is best for learning?
skimastaaah wrote:
ALQ picked out the Faust run video clip as being his type of smooth skiing "aim" for want of a better word, but the process of "how" ALQ gets there is the most important.
Great, so how about you describe the process of how you might help ALQ, or the skier in his clip, achieve some of the things you identified he could work. I'm not asking for a year's worth of lesson plans, just a good idea of what the interaction would be between you and the learner in one or more coaching sessions.
skimastaaah wrote:
In other words, get real, wise-up, go do what you have to do to do what you want to do. Simples.
I would love to Oh Mastaah, but the one I must learn from just keeps spouting slogans and the dull bits from an Open University text book.
After all it is free
After all it is free
skimastaaah wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
skimastaaah I'm genuinely interested in different teaching styles, hence my questions, but you don't seem keen to elucidate.
The paying clients of any ski-school lesson need to be the more aware of what they really want, rather than be force-fed by bland instruction.
In other words, get real, wise-up, go do what you have to do to do what you want to do. Simples.
And therein lies the problem.
Most students will give the instructor a 'shopping / wish list' of their 'wants' and a good instructor will discover their 'whys' and provide them with the 'hows'.
Whilst we all recognise that time on snow is integral to development, that is precisely the one thing that is in shortest supply for most recreational skiers.
Hence a balance has to be met with directed, focussed learning from the instructor and time for the student to assimilate that learning outside of the lesson environment.
My aim with all my students is to make myself redundant.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Mike Pow wrote:
My aim with all my students is to make myself redundant.
I'm assuming eventually, rather than in the middle of the first lesson
My aim is to help put in place the foundations of good skiing so they ski whatever part of the mountain they want, and to help them on that journey for as long as they want my input. While it's very nice to be paid to do that, there is a huge reward for me in seeing a number of my regular students making massive strides forward, and for those who are so inclined passing their own instructor exams at L1, L2 and L3.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
[quote="rob@rar"]
Mike Pow wrote:
My aim with all my students is to make myself redundant.
I'm assuming eventually, rather than in the middle of the first lesson
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Mon Sep 10, 12 10:38; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
A lot of chatter about carving and such like, none of which will really help answer your original question about getting better.
and yep i had fallen into instructor speak (gives self sharp slap) so ta for the comment as it is very true about people feeling intimidated to ask
