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Being less rubbish at skiing. A masterplan. Anyone got any ideas? |
 Poster: A snowHead
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skimastaaah, Sadly, only too true.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Practices make perfect. Need I say more? Never met a ski instructor in my life but I always do a two week trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Practice makes permanent.
Practicing the right thing is great, practicing the wrong thing isn't so smart.
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skimottaret, didn't notice a video section was just having a quick look (whilst at work), so will have a look today when i get chance (the boss goes out).
sack the jungler: just seen your video, think I'm pretty much at your level, so early intermediate it is - been skiing 3 times so I'm assuming this ties in with my level.
thanks all
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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Don't know who the lady is in the video, but she's all over the place.
Didn't make one carved turn - the point of the video - as she lifted her inside ski every time.
Not a good example to replicate.
Better videos earlier IMHO
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After all it is free 
After all it is free
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Mike Pow,
Urska Hrovat, Slovenian world cup slalom medalist. I would mind skiing as untidily as she does.
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ALQ, I'm not sure it is a good use of time for people to take random drill sets off the internet and then go out and practice without a clear idea of what it is they are trying to address in their skiing and what the drills are meant to do. I see this a lot and although well meaning I would get an instructor have a look, get a feel for the clients goals and then prescribe a few drills that could help in their journey...
For instance Sack the Juggler, could work on his coordination using the drills you put up in the video but that may not address his more fundamental issues, there are hundreds of drills and know ing what is relavent to help the skier is the key. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much 
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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Agreed, Mayer makes a better subject for an instructional video, but the girl can definitely ski.
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You know it makes sense.
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Fifespud, like skimottaret says, taking demos off the Internet as your "guide" without knowing what you are doing wrong or why is just a laff! If the original poster wants to improve then good instruction with lots of focussed time having fun on snow is way better than arbitrary copying of Internet videos
Plus I'd be delighted to "fail" like Urska Hrovat -must try harder this coming season to be her kind of failure! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| Fifespud, like skimottaret says, taking demos off the Internet as your "guide" without knowing what you are doing wrong or why is just a laff! If the original poster wants to improve then good instruction with lots of focussed time having fun on snow is way better than arbitrary copying of Internet videos |
+1 ......... But I just wonder if this particular video will get good intermediates focussing on the daft pole planting shown on the video as opposed to the correct use of knees, angulation, and presuure/edging.
My tip ............ get on the snow, have fun, watch other skiers, work out what they do well, know what you want to do well.
One of my early ESC/BASI trainers was a very slight framed late 20-something, who used to have a superbly "light" touch and appeared almost to skim the surface with a dancer's glide. Me being a billy-fat-boy would never get his lightness of touch, but he had a very quiet upper body, absorbing all surface/terrain shake with both legs/knees simoultaneously, and that was the key, ............."softness" and "feel". Two rather intangible characteristics, but rather useful to develop. Thank you Alex!
Mayer has it, Hrovat hasn't.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| musher wrote: |
| Urska Hrovat, Slovenian world cup slalom medalist. I would mind skiing as untidily as she does. |
Remember that just because you can ski fast doesn’t mean you’re a good all round skier. OK it's symptomatic but not proof. I would imagine (don’t know for sure as never skied with her) that she is a really good skier, just not too good at the pole plants she was trying. Racers tend not to train to be nice to watch technically, they train to go fast and I'm sure she's good at that.
| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| Seems to me that many people "believe" that a carved turn should not throw up any snow, therefore if there is snow thrown up at any part of the turn, the skier is not carving! Hmm I wonder if the World Cup racers realise that they are such sloppy skidders? |
I think you're missing the point in racing. The idea is to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible round some posts. If you use an amount of sideways movements (slide) to allow the carved sections to be maximized, the result is that the carved speed gain is more than the slide loss; so your total speed is increased.
Remember a good skier is not someone who can carve (any one can do that, just go fast and lean), a good skier is someone who can control the slide.
| skimastaaah wrote: |
| My tip ............ get on the snow, have fun, watch other skiers, work out what they do well, know what you want to do well. |
Yep, skimastaaah has it right. The only thing I’d add is to take a FEW lessons (not all the time) now and again (we need the money) , then when you’re skiing just try and see if you can bring the lesson movements/drills/explanations/techniques/etc into your skiing.
Last but not least
Back to the OP, dobby remember that your kids will end up better than you at most things. Don't worry about it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
Fifespud, like skimottaret says, taking demos off the Internet as your "guide" without knowing what you are doing wrong or why is just a laff! If the original poster wants to improve then good instruction with lots of focussed time having fun on snow is way better than arbitrary copying of Internet videos
Plus I'd be delighted to "fail" like Urska Hrovat -must try harder this coming season to be her kind of failure! |
Yes well I basically repeated the time on snow mantra on page 1 - I also expressed my dubiety regarding the 'video' lesson route. So we are in agreement there. All I was saying wrt this specific clip was that the lady had not demonstrated the lesson particularly well, world cup skier or not.
Surely trying to improve at skiing whilst a beginner by watching world cup downhill skiing would be a bit like trying to teach yourself to drive by watching videos of Colin McCrae rallying.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fifespud, An interesting point. But my initial feeling is that WC skiing is not so different in theory to normal skiing, whereas WRC driving is a totally different animal to the Tesco run?
I am reasonably convinced that my bumps skiing was improved over various summers be endlessly watching the bumps sequences in "Blizzzard"and "Licence".
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
Fifespud, An interesting point. But my initial feeling is that WC skiing is not so different in theory to normal skiing, whereas WRC driving is a totally different animal to the Tesco run?
I am reasonably convinced that my bumps skiing was improved over various summers be endlessly watching the bumps sequences in "Blizzzard"and "Licence". |
Even if the skier in question was more or less a beginner at that point?
If you have half a clue maybe, which I suspect you do!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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When I was told to do these type of drills I was told not to focus on making clean carves but to concentrate on shoulder/upper body position, feel what's happening there and forget about the legs/feet, with the purpose to eliminate shoulder dropping. This is a drill and not the way to ski, so the amount of skidding is not that important - there are different drills for that, and eventually elements of skiing practiced through various drills come together. I am sure the lady skier is capable of clean carving when she skis normally. Some drills can be harder to perform while maintaining an overall "good form" but it's not a big issue as long as the purpose of the drill is achieved. And she demonstrated what the drill is for quite well if you look at her upper body.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
Fifespud, An interesting point. But my initial feeling is that WC skiing is not so different in theory to normal skiing, whereas WRC driving is a totally different animal to the Tesco run?
I am reasonably convinced that my bumps skiing was improved over various summers be endlessly watching the bumps sequences in "Blizzzard"and "Licence". |
Even if the skier in question was more or less a beginner at that point?
If you have half a clue maybe, which I suspect you do! |
Maybe!
I wonder if you can learn to ski from scratch by watching vids. Mirror neurons and all that.
Is that an ethical experiment to ask funding for do you think, or do we need to go all Austrian and kidnap someone?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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dobby, andSack the Juggler, there is a similar thread on the go at the moment and I will say the same here as I did there. I like a Nov/Dec pre-season instruction "all mountain" week and I choose Skivolution who do this in Kaprun on the Kitzsteinhorn glacier, guaranteeing ample snow. It's much higher than next door Zell am Zee but we sometimes have a day or two there. I,ve been doing it 5 seasons and have got much better. Now I do it for a kick in the pants to ensure I don't get lazy. It's about £650 I think plus flights and transfer. I can go on my own and find the company excellent. Check their website and ring Tracey who is on the ball about everything. And it's good fun.
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After all it is free
After all it is free
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| never summer wrote: |
| When I was told to do these type of drills I was told not to focus on making clean carves but to concentrate on shoulder/upper body position, feel what's happening there and forget about the legs/feet, with the purpose to eliminate shoulder dropping. This is a drill and not the way to ski, so the amount of skidding is not that important - there are different drills for that, and eventually elements of skiing practiced through various drills come together. I am sure the lady skier is capable of clean carving when she skis normally. Some drills can be harder to perform while maintaining an overall "good form" but it's not a big issue as long as the purpose of the drill is achieved. And she demonstrated what the drill is for quite well if you look at her upper body. |
You think too much!
Just get on your skis and ski ............................................. drills suck.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Farley Goode wrote: |
| dobby, andSack the Juggler, there is a similar thread on the go at the moment and I will say the same here as I did there. I like a Nov/Dec pre-season instruction "all mountain" week and I choose Skivolution who do this in Kaprun on the Kitzsteinhorn glacier, guaranteeing ample snow. It's much higher than next door Zell am Zee but we sometimes have a day or two there. I,ve been doing it 5 seasons and have got much better. Now I do it for a kick in the pants to ensure I don't get lazy. It's about £650 I think plus flights and transfer. I can go on my own and find the company excellent. Check their website and ring Tracey who is on the ball about everything. And it's good fun. |
Farley - sounds interesting. How many folk on the course? How many in each group? What is the level?
If you've got time - I'm looking for something like this.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
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| never summer wrote: |
| When I was told to do these type of drills I was told not to focus on making clean carves but to concentrate on shoulder/upper body position, feel what's happening there and forget about the legs/feet, with the purpose to eliminate shoulder dropping. This is a drill and not the way to ski, so the amount of skidding is not that important - there are different drills for that, and eventually elements of skiing practiced through various drills come together. I am sure the lady skier is capable of clean carving when she skis normally. Some drills can be harder to perform while maintaining an overall "good form" but it's not a big issue as long as the purpose of the drill is achieved. And she demonstrated what the drill is for quite well if you look at her upper body. |
Spot on! The point of the drill was Coordination, not carving turns - the Claus Maier clip is best for carving 
The reason I suggested the drill is coz, after seeing Juggler's vid, I thought it might be more helpful than 'go get lessons'.
Skimottaret It wasn't quite random coz double pole plants (exercises 1,2) really helped me get the feel for more separation, shoulders down the fall line and getting my weight forward. There are thousands of clips (I've seen most of them!) and I quite enjoy hearing various opinions, tips and just watching better skiers online. Of course I agree, they are not a replacement for instruction from a qualified pro or to address fundamental issues specific to individuals.
Do you think it's NOT a useful drill for him in particular to use? Looking at his video, if he was in your class, would you recommend these drills? If not, then which drill (if any)?
skimastaaah With respect, do you seriously think 'get on the snow, have fun, watch other skiers, work out what they do well' is going to add value to the improvement of a lower intermediate skier? Perhaps it's been a while since you were at that level but imagine you were learning something where technique was important.
Say you were a lower intermediate golfer having a lesson with me and i said to you:
'get on the course'...ok, you mishit 60% of your shots
'have fun'....yeah great, you love bushes and bunkers and lakes.
'watch other skiers'...OK, you watch tiger, ryder cup and other good players. what do u watch for?
'Work out what they do well'...they turn their shoulders and hit the ball really well from tee to green.
'know what you want to do well'....errr....play golf well, not duff 60% of shots, lower scores.
'That's £650 please'....errr....*what ever you think is appropriate...thanks?
I'm taking the wee a bit, but do you get my point? It's just lazy instructing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ALQ, you make a lot of excuses for remaining a "lower intermediate".
Golf is Golf, for the most part a closed skill sport. Practice, Practice and more practice. Boring! Golf has a cheat system, a "Handicap".
Skiing is Skiing, for the most part and open-skill sport. Experience, feel, understanding. Exciting! The mountain never lies, you can or you can't.
When you watch skiers skiing you look for stance, leg work, use of both skis to initiate, control, and finish the turn, and fluidity of movement. Watch Mayer in the clip even when he's doing the daft drills he remains relaxed, and quiet in upper the body. You gotta work out what he's doing to achieve this, why there's no over-rotation, what's he doing to the skis to make sure they are pressured and on their edge, and how he angulates his knees/legs throughout his skiing to control the skis their whole length. Simples!
I take it you're not a Visual/Kinaesthetic Learner! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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And therein lies the problem in far too many instructor - student relationships, the disconnect between how the instructor delivers the learning and the optimum delivery method for the student.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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You know it makes sense.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| And therein lies the problem in far too many instructor - student relationships, the disconnect between how the instructor delivers the learning and the optimum delivery method for the student. |
+1 as they say. Gibberish.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| And therein lies the problem in far too many instructor - student relationships, the disconnect between how the instructor delivers the learning and the optimum delivery method for the student. |
Exactly right. I think the spectrum of clients we teach are representative of good through to excellent recreational skiers, and while a "just ski" approach is a part of the mix of teaching strategies that is not how the vast majority of them make significant incremental steps forward with their skiing. Even when it is "just skiing" we will still be setting parameters such as choice of terrain, snow conditions, speed, etc in order to work on specific goals.
The "just ski" approach to instruction is why I gave up taking ski lessons for more than a decade. If anyone I teach is reading this and you feel that all I'm asking you to do is "just ski" please ask for your money back.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
If anyone I teach is reading this and you feel that all I'm asking you to do is "just ski" please ask for your money back.
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I think you're safe there, rob@rar.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Fifespud wrote: |
| Farley Goode wrote: |
| dobby, andSack the Juggler, there is a similar thread on the go at the moment and I will say the same here as I did there. I like a Nov/Dec pre-season instruction "all mountain" week and I choose Skivolution who do this in Kaprun on the Kitzsteinhorn glacier, guaranteeing ample snow. It's much higher than next door Zell am Zee but we sometimes have a day or two there. I,ve been doing it 5 seasons and have got much better. Now I do it for a kick in the pants to ensure I don't get lazy. It's about £650 I think plus flights and transfer. I can go on my own and find the company excellent. Check their website and ring Tracey who is on the ball about everything. And it's good fun. |
Farley - sounds interesting. How many folk on the course? How many in each group? What is the level?
If you've got time - I'm looking for something like this. |
Me too!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimastaaah, Ha-ha, you are right. Drills suck, that's why from the chair lift you can see the difference between people who can ski and those who think they can. Nothing wrong with this either as long as they are having fun:) But good form comes handy in many ski sitiations, and can be carried from cruisers to steeps to moguls to powder as the basis is the same in all terrain/snow conditions, so drills even that they may suck are not useless.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi,
I must confess to not having read all the previous posts in detail so appologies if I am repeating someone elses advice. I would suggest you take up roller blading or ice skating. Both sports will work on your balance, movements and bottle and can be practiced all year round. The skill set and muscle groups involved are virtually identical you can then transfer them back to skiing. Sometimes it's really useful psychologically to do this. Remember to pad up though.
All the best.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
The reason I suggested the drill is coz, after seeing Juggler's vid, I thought it might be more helpful than 'go get lessons'.
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This is what the typical lesson consists of anyway. You have a ski-off, when a student leads and istructor follows and based on that a drill is selected to work on whichever element is deemed necessary. Then it's incorporated into "normal" skiing, difficulty is increased etc. But of course drills can be practiced without lessons as long as the person knows what he's trying to achieve and why. It will be much better in any case than "watching others skiing, working out what they do well and ski"
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Practice makes permanent. |
For some people maybe and can also sometimes lead to .... 'I know what I like and I like what I know'
| never summer wrote: |
| that's why from the chair lift you can see the difference between people who can ski and those who think they can. |
Really ? There are two skiers I know who look pretty good on piste (they've both had about 50 weeks skiing experience and lots and lots of lessons), who often do that pointy thing themselves from chairlifts when they see someone they think skis pretty or, conversely, whose style they don't like the look of. Neither of them are particularly versatile though and often get completely phased on the occasions they venture far away from the beaten tracks so consequently, they don't do it often. In many peoples views though, they'd look as though they could ski as well or better than some of the more rounded folk alongside them if you were looking down at them all from a chairlift.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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| moffatross wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Practice makes permanent. |
For some people maybe and can also sometimes lead to .... 'I know what I like and I like what I know'
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Of course, and if people are happy with how and what they ski then lots of skiing is definitely the right thing to do. I was simply providing an alternative viewpoint as there is no certainty that practice will make perfect. My experience was that practice meant I was very good at my bad habits, and was not a very versatile skier as a result.
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After all it is free
After all it is free
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
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