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The great single room debate...

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Only 3 days back from my annual ski jaunt and already myself and my ski buddies are researching holidays for next year. As always the big issue is finding decent hotels in enticing ski areas with at least two single rooms or offering twin rooms with low single supplements.

It irritates me that this particular requirement is so difficult. 1 in 5 adults are single and many hitched people might go skiing without their other half. I accept that some people, especially the younger generation, might be willing to share a room with someone, but when you get to a certain age, this doesn't appeal. It's a holiday after all, why lower ones usual standards?

I wish accommodation providers would wake up and do something about this. It must be an increasing trend, it seems to get more and more difficult each year.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Singles are losers to be exploited.

Just shack up with your female friend in a double and stop whining.
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queen bodecia, I am older than you... I think (49) and happily share a room for a week at least twice a year with blokes I have never met on sH and SCGB holidays. Sure I cannot play the arse-trumpet-voluntary with such gusto as when I am with my family but, even when one of those blokes is Kramer, its not a problem. Toofy Grin

So yes - I think you should be willing to pay more if you are travelling with friends and not willing to share a room with them.
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I'm definitely not a loser, I'm a consumer to be catered for and I don't want to share.
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Studio apartment each? Probably works out about the same as a hotel room costwise, and layout-wise is pretty much the same as a hotel room (except with a kitchenette). In lots of places there might even be a building containing many apartments so you can all be in the same physical building.

Last time I rented a studio flat in Zermatt, for example (known for being pricey), it was ~£400 per week (at today's exchange rate that is), so about £60/night - which I think is comparible to a hotel room.

OK, so no breakfast included, but hey. A 2 minute walk to the bakery normally solves that quite nicely.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 17-03-10 14:57; edited 1 time in total
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stoatsbrother, I'm happy to pay a bit of a supplement for the benefit of a twin room to myself, but it's still something rarely offered by hotels and even less so by chalets. Single rooms also often attract a supplement and have fewer facilities and a lot less space than twin rooms.

Yes, one of my ski buddies is also a single female, but we don't want to share. We don't really know each other that well and are both used to living alone in our own houses and having our own space.
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paulio, thanks for the suggestion but self-catering does not appeal. At a comparable cost to a hotel room it would work out far more expensive to add meals on top of that. Plus I don't want to shop, cook, clean on holiday.
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OK I was assuming B&B board as my comparison point (involving eating out) rather than an evening meals included setup.
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I'm a half board gal. Let someone else do all the chores for me. Very Happy
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Unfortunately the economies of being a hotelier makes it difficult to achieve what you want - which I presume is "the price of a double room divided by two, plus not much more"

The room has a value, and that value is "going rate per person * room capacity".

Even deducting the money saved from the minor improvement to the rate of wear and tear, and the cost of a meal each day, means that a single staying in a double room (and it's not unreasonable that a hotelier would provide mostly double/twin rooms since the majority of travellers travel as a couple) won't get very near the holy grail of the room price being the same as the 'per head' price.

So basically, you'll have to sleep in your car. Sorry.
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queen bodecia, I'm with you on that. I've done enough sharing, even beds, in my time to want to go back to doing that. I enjoy the privacy of my own room. And I definitely do not want to be doing shopping & cooking on my holiday! The Mark Warner chalet hotel Dahu in Courchevel has quite a few single rooms at no additional cost - but I don't know if that is within your budget anyway. I've stayed there twice now as part of an Inspired to Ski package and its fine.
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I'm not really saying that. It would be nice if hoteliers recognised a growing trend and acted upon it. For example, they could add a couple of walls and a bit more plumbing and have two single rooms in place of a large double room. They'd probably earn more that way. Or during off-peak weeks they could avoid having empty double rooms by offering low supplements to single travellers (the hotel I stayed in La Thuile last week did this).

It just doesn't seem to happen enough to meet with the demand. I'm sure most people who put up with sharing would much rather have their own space and would be prepared to pay a bit more for it.
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If you're not prepared to "lower your standards", stop griping about the cost.

This is no different from me moaning that I want to stay at the Sheraton but my budget extends to youth hostels.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Peak season in Saalbach (kids half term) I managed to get a single room in a nice hotel. Suspect a significant increase of single rooms would mean many single rooms would be empty peak season as most singles don't mind sharing.
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Quote:

It just doesn't seem to happen enough to meet with the demand. I'm sure most people who put up with sharing would much rather have their own space and would be prepared to pay a bit more for it.


Is there that much demand though? Hotels are a businees, they are there to make money, not to provide alternative accomodation for awkward tourists. Why should they make things easier for you if it makes their life harder, unless there's a significant financial incentive for them? Maybe they're quite happy with how many rooms they fill each week and how much oney they make, without creating extra hassle for themselves.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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queen bodecia, I travel on my own mostly and do not find it difficult to get single rooms in hotels and do not pay a supplement. I mainly ski in Austria these days as it is on my doorstep but I find dealing directly with the hotels is the way to do it. I'm off on Saturday to a hotel where they have single rooms which also include a seating area and an armchair for me to watch TV or just to read comfortably and chill out. No single supplement.

Sometimes I get a single room - they are not that uncommon to be honest, and sometimes I am given a double room for me alone. As a single you tend to pay a higher room rate than two people sharing any way, but if they want slap a supplement on it on top, then they are told where to stick it.

I actually found out this season that I do not like sharing even with good friends - I like my private space. Even going DIY self-catering and sharing a room with a good friend put a strain on the friendship as we are both used to having our own private space.

I think an awful lot of TOs are extracting the urine with their supplements - they are ludicrously over the top and I'm pretty sure the hotel does not see a cent more than the negotiated per head/per night fees. One of the reasons I started doing my own trips was a result of working with a TO and finding out just how much they rip-off both tourists and service providers. And they play both ends off against each other while smiling their way to the bank!



snowHead
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queen bodecia, me 'n the lads have this problem every year. There are four of us and we don't want to share rooms. So far we have managed to find hotels that apply just a small (< £100) single supplement at Pila (Hotel Europe), Val D'isere (Chalethotel Moris no supplement as they actually have single rooms), Sallbach (Bergers SportHotel) and Ischgl (Hotel Alpenrose). All were good. Moris hotel was 'lively' (and fun) Alpenrose was probably most upmarket (but still only 2 *).

Looking for somewhere in the Dolomites next year. snowHead
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What's the debate?

If there was the demand, it would be met by supply.

Is anyone suggesting there is some sinister distortion of the market?
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Higs, I wouldn't say there's a distortion, but like the OP it do find it surprising that there aren't more single rooms available. It normally takes me several enquiries to find a hotel in the chosen area that will cater for us without simply charging the equivalent of double price. That said, so far i have always managed to do it. snowHead
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I don't get what's such a "great" debate! Puzzled

I travelled by myself for many years and have never really had a problem finding single rooms. It's typically costing about 60-65% of a double room. So yes, it's a bit more expensive than sharing a double paying only 50% of the room cost. But considering not having to share bathroom in the morning and waiting for one's turn for shower, it's quite a reasonable value. One really would be un-reasonable to expect a hotelier will offer single room at half price when 2 singles rooms would have 2 bathroom which takes up more space and cleaning need.

Perhaps it's simply a TO's money grabbing scheme that single rooms are so "scarce"? I mostly DIY when travelling solo and don't recall having much difficulty at finding reasonably priced single room in decent hotel. And I've had in many cases been given a twin room "upgrade" at no cost when hotels are not fill to capacity.

Sorry to gloat.
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If I was building a hotel I'd want the flexibility of as many double/twin rooms as possible. I can always bung a single in a double room if need be but I couldn't bung a couple in a single.

So now I've got a hotel full of twin rooms - am I going to let the rooms to singles for £x or to couples/pairs for £2x?

We're at the other end of the problem in that we've got 6year-old triplets and ideally would like every ski resort to have a wide choice of large family rooms at reasonable prices but they don't.
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Sharing?! SHARING?! Come back to me when you have to share a bed with powdermonkey for a week! Very Happy

On thread - the chalet we stayed in had two single rooms that were fought over by some of our group - we looked at hotels and found that they quite often had single rooms available - this was in St Anton.
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Nadenoodlee, er, what sex is powdermonkey, and would I be allowed out on occasions ?
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Real hotels quite often have have singles, TO chalets don't. If you're picky enough to want a chalet holiday then you've got to be prepared to pay through the nose for the lost revenue opportunity for the TO.
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Higs wrote:
If I was building a hotel I'd want the flexibility of as many double/twin rooms as possible.

If you're building a hotel from the ground up, yes.

But if what you have is an old building, you often end up with odd shaped rooms. Some rooms are larger than others, which can be made into "family" rooms. Other romos are smaller than usual, which you turn into single rooms!
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If you hang on until the last minute you may have more choice but if I owned a hotel, I would not be interested in halving my income from a room until I was certain you were the only revenue I was going to get from it.

If you rented a 4 person apartment on your own, would you expect to get it at 25% of the advertised rate if you were travelling alone?

There is no great debate (worthy of a natter though) and I don't know that being single is a growing class. Its a case of pay the money or wait/shop around, or buy your own place.
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Hotel Aplenrose, Bayrischzell, Upper Bavaria.

Single room
45 euro B&B, 65 euro half board with drinks

Bus or train to slopes, very easy.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=62376
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queen bodecia,

Just had a quick "Google" and all the below feature specially tailored holidays for singles. I do agree with folks in the forum that it is may be best to "self assemble" your own ski holiday and that way you may be able to avoid single supplements, having said that Neilson's seem to offer sngles holidays as part of their portfolio.

If you are late booker and you have specific holiday in mind when you speak to your TO don't be frightened to haggle. Chalets and club type hotels are often contracted by TO's on a financial guarantee basis ie. the TO has all the rooms for the season and it is their responsibility to fill the hotel whereby unsold rooms are a cost to the tour operator when left empty. In such circumstances TO's will often waive single supplements on the basis it is better to have "one bum on a seat" than let it go empty. The same with the bed if it is financially guaranteed.

When you call the TO ask to talk to folks in charge with Late Sales rather that ordinary reservations staff as these folks have up to the minute knowledge on load factors and what needs to be filled. Also as a direct customer also ask for a discount as the TO won't have to pay commision to a travel agent with a direct booker. Good luck! Very Happy

http://www.friendshiptravel.com/destinations.html

http://www.neilson.co.uk/Snow-Solo-Skiers.aspx

http://www.coldfusionchalets.co.uk/

http://www.snowbreaks.com/







Very Happy
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I'm really not griping about the cost. Paying 60-70% of the cost of a double room between two people for either a decent-sized single room or a double for sole occupancy is fine by me. The point of this thread was the limited availability. And it looks as though many of you feel the same as me.

I can see there might be more availability booking with a hotel direct, but myself and my ski buddies really are dedicated TO people. The whole transfer thing is where the convenience falls down for me and I don't want this thread to turn into another TO versus DIY argument. Booking late isn't really an option either, with 8 people wanting to stay in the same accommodation including 2 singles, it needs to be planned way in advance to get what we want.

I guess my gripe is the lack of options. There are plenty of great resorts out there that would be great to visit but finding the right type of accommodation with a major TO is getting increasingly restrictive. I really think there is plenty of demand out there. Although many single travellers would be prepared to share, I reckon the majority would far rather have their own space.

Neilson have made a good start by listing the properties they offer that have single rooms, but some operators seem to think the best way to deal with inconvenient singles is to lump them together rather than actually offering what they want.

Anyway, an interesting discussion. Looks like we are going back to Kitzbuhel again next year. Finding an alternative in Austria is proving tricky and some of my group of ski buddies haven't been there yet.
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queen bodecia,

It's the oldl standby..." I'm fed up telling people who keep asking, there's no demand for it"
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
queen bodecia wrote:
myself and my ski buddies really are dedicated TO people


well there is the problem - using TO - not single room availability as such wink
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Quote:

For example, they could add a couple of walls and a bit more plumbing and have two single rooms in place of a large double room.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

And you think that's going to make the price of your room cheaper?
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Lizzard, and they could also put double beds in them and then sell them as doubles wink
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There are hotels with no single room suppliments on certain dates, if you search around ( wink )
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abc,
Quote:

waiting for one's turn for shower


That's easy, it's waking up in the morning or rolling in from apres absolutely busting that the problems happen. Mind you, if one has had the foresight to book a room with a balcony then no bother...
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Quote:

The point of this thread was the limited availability

There are plenty of great resorts out there that would be great to visit but finding the right type of accommodation with a major TO is getting increasingly restrictive.

As others had observed, the "limited availability" is mostly due to TO's. There're much more availability of single rooms actually available but not offered by TOs.

So at some point, you'll have to decide:

1) forget about those other "great resorts" and stick to the few where TO offers single room with tolerable supplement

2) bite the bullet and pay the single supplement.

3) DIY, which may end up costing no worse than the single supplement impose by TOs.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 18-03-10 0:14; edited 1 time in total
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queen bodecia,
Quote:

And it looks as though many of you feel the same as me.
Sorry but I don't see that at all. It seems to me that most replies don't understand why you don't just get on with it and share? I don't really think that there is a valid arguement here.

You don't mind paying a premium for single supplement but when there are no singles you will not share with your "ski buddies" for a week? Either they're not really buddies or you have some latent socio-pathic tendencies that you've not let us in on Laughing

I love my own space as does my usual room-mate on the boys ski trips but were friends, we get on and we accommodate each other. OK we have to put up with each other's snoring, farting, burping etc.. but it's 6-7 hrs out of a 24hr day. If you don't want to interact put the i-pod on and open a good book. Plus I do share with people who I would call acquaintances as opposed to best friends with no problem - we just get on with it. Toofy Grin
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Dr John wrote:
abc,
Quote:

waiting for one's turn for shower


That's easy, it's waking up in the morning or rolling in from apres absolutely busting that the problems happen. Mind you, if one has had the foresight to book a room with a balcony then no bother...

I had the most considerate roommate at Telluride. Madeye-Smiley

We quickly decide one of us prefer the bed by the window while the other the bed away from the window. Smile

We quickly realized one of us likes to sleep in and the other likes to be the first on the lift. So no conflict with morning bathroom ritual.

We quickly found out one of us (the early riser) quit skiing early and do not linger at the watering hole for long. So by the time the late riser got done with skiing, followed by some window/real shopping, plus an apres drink, Ms early riser were already done with hot tub + shower and ready to go out to eat!

Ms late-in-the-day were so hungry at that point she takes a quick 5 min shower and we're off for dinner.

Early to bed both of us. Not that it really matter anyway. After a day of skiing, I was sufficiently tired I didn't hear my roommate coming in the one night she stayed out late (despite normally being a relatively light sleeper and wake up at the slightest sound/movement) Very Happy

I refused to share for the longest time because of all the perceived issues. But having been forced to do so for a different reason (backcountry huts, only shelter from the element), I changed my POV so completely I have now shared with random snowheads on TWO bashes.
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queen bodecia wrote:
...I'm a consumer to be catered for and I don't want to share.


No you're not. That's why there is nobody catering for you. Single rooms are an expensive piece of real estate for chalet / hotel / apartment / etc owners. If you insist on having your own room, sack up and pay for it. I'm not being mean, just look at it from the other point of view.

As it goes, when I was running my own chalet company, we charged a set fee for the chalet - not a per bed basis. On several occasions we had empty rooms and / or single with their own rooms / facilities - the gusts paid for it to be that way.

Anywhere that is charging per bed is just looking to make maximum money so it goes without saying that they aren't going to have single rooms or forgo the single occupation / empty bed supplement, when they can make more money from double occupation.

Get a better job / marry a rich man / win the lottery / rob a bank, as suits and stay in nicer accommodation. snowHead
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parlor, - a little bit cruel - but non the less spot on. Long live capitalism. Cash is the bottom line if you don't like it get a better job and stop e$$ing moaning Toofy Grin
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