 Poster: A snowHead
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We're planning our honeymoon for Feb(ish) 2016 and seriously keen on Japan. We've never been before and really want to get the most of the trip so are considering some independent travel (flights to Tokyo, couple of days there etc) then joining a more organised tour, on the basis of hoping that local knowledge will a) get us off the beaten track and b) know where to go to get the best conditions on each day.
We're both pretty competent off piste skiers, have our own avi kit, ABS etc, plus skins but understand that guiding in Japan isn't like Europe and don't want to end up in a group like this: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=118017
Any thoughts or recommendations of reputable organisations would be hugely appreciated!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Black Diamond Tours.
And I've pm-ed you some other stuff.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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After 4 years of poor snow in Canada (when I was there at least), I'm also considering Japan for next season.
What are Black Diamond Tours like in terms of organisation? I'm only interested in the quality of the snow/skiing, I really don't care about the cultural side of things. I don't want to end up on a 10 day lads road trip.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just read that review you shared - absolutely awful. Are you looking to join a group or do something more privately?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@PowderAdict, they're excellent. Skied bell to bell (fast and hard - high standard of client) with them every day, interesting restaurants in the eve. Only lairy night was the last one in Sapporo with no skiing the next day.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I used mountain tracks who have run trips there for years. the IFGMA guide who owns arctic heliski also does trips to Japan before Iceland gets going. search for Bergmenn Mountain Guides and you should find it. just giving some other options.
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| PowderAdict wrote: |
| I'm only interested in the quality of the snow/skiing, I really don't care about the cultural side of things. |
That's exactly what I thought before I went this winter. But my lasting memories from my trip are not of the snow but of Japan itself, such as staying at the ultra traditional Sukayu Onsen hotel in Hakkoda and getting smashed with locals in a sake bar in Hakodate (ok memories from that one are slightly hazy... ). You'd be very foolish to travel all that way and not dip your toes in to at least a bit of the culture, which you won't do if you just stay in Niseko for the duration of your visit.
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| hd wrote: |
| PowderAdict wrote: |
| I'm only interested in the quality of the snow/skiing, I really don't care about the cultural side of things. |
That's exactly what I thought before I went this winter. But my lasting memories from my trip are not of the snow but of Japan itself, such as staying at the ultra traditional Sukayu Onsen hotel in Hakkoda and getting smashed with locals in a sake bar in Hakodate (ok memories from that one are slightly hazy...). You'd be very foolish to travel all that way and not dip your toes in to at least a bit of the culture, which you won't do if you just stay in Niseko for the duration of your visit. |
Each to their own. If I go on a dedicated powder skiing trip to Japan, and my lasting memories are of hotels, hot baths and getting drunk, rather than epic bottomless powder runs, then I would consider it a waste of money.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@PowderAdict, of course I have great memories of the snow as well which lived up to Japanese expectations, but they are filed alongside countless equally great memories of epic powder runs in Europe and North America. It was the cultural side of the holiday which made it unique. I met a group of Brits there who had done the standard 10 day package to Niseko only and in spite of the amazing snow they were slightly disappointed as Grand Hirafu is very generically Aussie/European, and said if travelling all that way again they would definitely explore more of what Japan skiing and also culture has to offer. Have you been?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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There are still many authentic Japanese experiences to be had in three of the four Niseko United base areas, as well as the area below Niseko Moiwa.
You just need to walk or drive beyond the main thoroughfares.
And you can easily be the only non-Japanese person in many of Kutchan's shops and restaurants.
This is no different from ski resorts like Tignes, Val d'Isere and St Anton to name but three.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@hd, I haven't been, hence my questions. For the last 4 years I fell for the hype surrounding Whistler (helped by the fact I was staying for free on hotel points), with their claimed 11-12m average snow fall. But never once experienced anything approaching epic powder in 8 weeks skiing, even when Cat or Heli Skiing. I kept returning, because I thought I must have been unlucky and it can't really be this bad given its reputation, but last season was the final straw, as by early March the season was basically over, and the resort was full of mountain bikes for hire.
By epic powder, I mean thigh deep, telepathic, float through it, don't touch the bottom powder, not 30cm on top of refrozen crud, rocks and moguls. I have probably only had these conditions on about 5 days in my entire time skiing.
Providing the powder snow in Japan lives up to the hype I would be happy, even if I was staying in the equivalent of a Premier Inn in Milton-Keynes.
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@PowderAdict, sounds like you have been very unlucky, yes Japan should be on your list, book a 2 week trip in Jan/Feb and barring even worse luck you would increase your number of epic powder days significantly. But do try to include more than just staying in Grand Hirafu - it is a fascinating country and you won't see any of it if that's the only place you go.
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You know it makes sense.
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| PowderAdict wrote: |
@hd, I haven't been, hence my questions. For the last 4 years I fell for the hype surrounding Whistler (helped by the fact I was staying for free on hotel points), with their claimed 11-12m average snow fall. But never once experienced anything approaching epic powder in 8 weeks skiing, even when Cat or Heli Skiing. I kept returning, because I thought I must have been unlucky and it can't really be this bad given its reputation, but last season was the final straw, as by early March the season was basically over, and the resort was full of mountain bikes for hire.
By epic powder, I mean thigh deep, telepathic, float through it, don't touch the bottom powder, not 30cm on top of refrozen crud, rocks and moguls. I have probably only had these conditions on about 5 days in my entire time skiing.
Providing the powder snow in Japan lives up to the hype I would be happy, even if I was staying in the equivalent of a Premier Inn in Milton-Keynes. |
I've been extremely fortunate to call Hokkaido my winter home for 7 of the last 9 seasons.
I average 100 days on snow each season, primarily at Kiroro, Niseko United, Rusutsu & Moiwa.
Of those 100 days - starting on Opening Day in late November and finishing at the start of April - I get to ski 60-65 days of knee deep or deeper snow. Often much deeper 
I've done seasons in interior BC, Montana, Colorado and Utah, and Hokkaido has given me the most, lightest, deepest and most consitent snow.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 13-07-15 21:22; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Mike Pow, @hd, Thank you for the information/updates. Sounds like I will have to make my way to Japan next season, hopefully poor conditions won't follow me.
Interestingly the yearly snow statistics have disappeared from the revamped Whistler site, probably because the last 5 years read 15.8m, 13.9m, 11.1m, 9.0m, 7.2m, which does not align with their marketing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Pleasure. You won't regret it.
Here's the village level snowfall (~ 300m asl) for Niseko (Hirafu & Higashiyama) for the past 9 seasons
2006/07 - 12.15 m
2007/08 - 13.87 m
2008/09 - 12.13 m
2009/10 - 15.80 m
2010/11 - 13.54 m
2011/12 - 15.66 m
2012/13 - 17.45 m
2013/14 - 13.58 m
2014/15 - 12.09 m
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Pleasure. You won't regret it.
Here's the village level snowfall (~ 300m asl) for Niseko (Hirafu & Higashiyama) for the past 9 seasons
2006/07 - 12.15 m
2007/08 - 13.87 m
2008/09 - 12.13 m
2009/10 - 15.80 m
2010/11 - 13.54 m
2011/12 - 15.66 m
2012/13 - 17.45 m
2013/14 - 13.58 m
2014/15 - 12.09 m |
Interesting that the season just gone was the driest in the last 9 but in our 2 weeks start of Feb we still scored it big time.
I wonder what 12/13 was like??? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| hd wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Pleasure. You won't regret it.
Here's the village level snowfall (~ 300m asl) for Niseko (Hirafu & Higashiyama) for the past 9 seasons
2006/07 - 12.15 m
2007/08 - 13.87 m
2008/09 - 12.13 m
2009/10 - 15.80 m
2010/11 - 13.54 m
2011/12 - 15.66 m
2012/13 - 17.45 m
2013/14 - 13.58 m
2014/15 - 12.09 m |
Interesting that the season just gone was the driest in the last 9 but in our 2 weeks start of Feb we still scored it big time.
I wonder what 12/13 was like??? |
01-14 February 2013
1.58 m
12 snow events
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm getting closer to booking my trip to Hokkaido. Does anyone know if there are issues flying with an ABS airbag internally in Japan? I know I can fly without issue with BA to/from Tokyo, but I am concerned about the transfer flight to Chitose.
Alternatively, does anyone know the availability of ABS cartridges in Niseko?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Really don't bother with the sack. [For balancing opinion please see here : love from admin]
Im not saying it never rips but the pitches are generally too short, too mellow, too tree covered
with pretty consistent temperatures the time of year you are thinking of for anything very serious to happen avi wise. At worst you might crack off a rare cornice, but I suspect if you are into dicking around on the shelf edge you are not the sort of skier who is likely to be investing in a sack
Keep away from Niseko for a more fulfilling experience
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Agree with Super Steezy re: ABS
There are some longer - 600 to 800m vertical - open pitches in the 30-40 degree range which are prime avalanche terrain.
But in my experience the snowpack is maritime - bonds well - even though the snowfall is continental.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Which resorts?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It is a guided road trip staying in 3 locations, and samples which ever resort has the best weather/conditions on the day. The planned itinerary is Niseko (5 resorts), Moiwa, Rusutsu, Furano, Tomamu, Kamui, Asahidake, Kokusai, Teine, Kiroro and Yubari Mt Racey.
I don't want to get shot down for spam, so I can PM you a link if you are interested in the trip.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| PowderAdict wrote: |
| I don't want to get shot down for spam, so I can PM you a link if you are interested in the trip. |
Promoting your own business is spamming and pretending to be an objective 3rd party to promote your business is totally dodgy however sharing who you've booked your next trip with is perfectly fine 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You'll have a ball.
Ross is a good guy who knows the areas well.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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'The truth is out there' 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Really don't bother with the sack.
Im not saying it never rips but the pitches are generally too short, too mellow, too tree covered
with pretty consistent temperatures the time of year you are thinking of for anything very serious to happen avi wise. At worst you might crack off a rare cornice, but I suspect if you are into dicking around on the shelf edge you are not the sort of skier who is likely to be investing in a sack
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I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I have first hand experience of skiing in Japan at the end of January 2015 and was involved in an avalanche that killed two of my party. Avalanches can and do happen. Don't be fooled into thinking that trees will save you as my colleagues were swept into the tress and that's what did for them. You need to take precautions, assess conditions and your routes. We were not way out in the backcountry, just skiing in the clear area under a cable car with tress either side of us. (An ABS wouldn't have saved the guys in this instance).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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For those not familiar with Bod's experience
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=118017
However it must be noted that his experience and the incident in question was on the main island of Honshu.
Honshu has different terrain features and snowfall from Hokkaido.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 29-07-15 12:10; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Total thread hijack - is earlish Jan or mid-Feb 'generally' better for POW days?
I want to do the 'The Ultimate Pow Trip' with BD Tours an the two trip dates are:
Trip #1: Jan. 11 - Jan. 21, 2016
Trip #2: Feb. 17 - Feb. 27, 2016
Feb would probably suit my work schedule better but Jan flights look cheaper. Keen to have the max chance for POW days since I'm going all that way.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Statistically more snow likely to fall between 11-21 Jan than 17-27 Feb.
Coverage will be better in February.
Less people in February.
More chance of seeing the scenery in February. Typically snows most days in January.
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Thanks @Mike Pow so half a dozen of one and six of the other really! I'm inclined towards the Feb dates given BD say the trip itinerary is flexible to find the best conditions so should have good chance of pow whilst having a few clear days to see the scenery.
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You'll have a great time in either time period.
They offer different experiences.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If your main consideration is snow absolutely go in January
The snow can taper off significantly from mid February on-wards but more importantly the sun gets really strong and can bake the south facing terrain in a matter of hours
Japans latitude is similar to Spain and its altitude is very low, it primarily relies on the Siberian storm patterns producing "lake effect" snow from the sea of japan. Mid feb onwards is when these systems start to sputter.
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This article is from Tony Crockers snow statistics website, note the comment that two thirds of annual snow falls between December and January
THE WORLD’S GREATEST “LAKE EFFECT”
North American skiers are familiar with lake effect snow from the Great Lakes in the Midwest and Utah’s Great Salt Lake. In Japan, this effect is taken to a completely different level. For lake effect snow to occur the atmosphere at 5,000 feet must be at least 13ºC colder than the body of water below. The mid-winter air over the Sea of Japan comes from Siberia and can be 40ºC colder or more. The fetch of open water must be at least 60 miles, and for the Sea of Japan it’s at least 250 miles. The snow falls heaviest within the first 25 miles of the western shore and is enhanced if elevation rises sharply. North America, Great Lake snowbelts are typically 500-1,000 feet above lake level, while Japan’s west coast mountains rise abruptly for 4,000 vertical feet or more.
Prevailing winds from the northwest through the southeast generate consistent mid-winter snowfall along the entire west coast of Hokkaido and most of Japan’s main island of Honshu. Annual snowfall is consistently 500 inches or more at the western Hokkaido ski areas near Sapporo, Niseko and Rusutsu and over 400 inches at ski areas in the Tohoku and Niigata regions along the west coast of Honshu. The Hakuba Valley is the westernmost part of the Nagano Prefecture on Honshu, and the small Hakuba Cortina area closest to the west coast has the snowiest reputation in the valley.
For powder skiers, another positive feature of lake effect snow is that it tends to be lower in water content than snow from typical weather frontal systems. Despite its low elevation Niseko’s snow averages eight percent water content, similar to ski areas in North America’s Intermountain West such as Snowbird in Utah and Jackson Hole, Wyo.
Unlike other ski regions, Japan’s snowfall is concentrated in the months of December and January. Those two months average between 33% (Loveland, Colo.) and 43% (Mt. Baker, Wash.) of total annual snowfall at North American ski areas. In Japan, a full two-thirds of annual snow falls in December and January. Statistically, 77 percent of January ski weeks planned in Niseko will have at least two days with six inches or more of new snow, compared with 48% in Utah at Alta.
The flip side of Japan’s snow pattern is that the period of optimal conditions is short lived. December is a gamble because there is often little if any snow base at the start of the month. Locals recommend the first half of February as snowfall is still abundant but with somewhat less intensity, the sidecountry and the hike to Niseko’s summit are more likely to be open. By March snowfall is only half of January’s as the air coming from Siberia is not nearly as cold. Locals in both Hakuba and Niseko told me that March skiing in Japan is like April in North America. Spring surface conditions are likely impacted negatively by low elevation (5,000 feet lower than western North America ski areas at comparable latitudes) and predominantly sunny exposure at Niseko. Both Hakuba and Niseko average less than 10 inches of April snowfall, implying strongly that most spring precipitation is in the form of rain. Some ski areas stay open until the beginning of May as the huge midwinter snowpack takes a long time to mel
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FAQ
. Now watch Japan have the worst season on record 