 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, just a thought and you're probably going to hate me for asking this !
Have you ever thought about putting together a crib sheet for people who have had lessons with you ?
Basically just outlining the different exercises you get people to do and how it will help.
I only ask as I've forgotton most of what we did in August.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ah yes - my ski helper strikes again 
he does write this stuff quite well yes?
I'm not sure re the waist steering either - but I know he went and played with it before going along with it.... it may be one of those "how you say is just a way to get you to do" things .... or whatever - I think I'll wait and see when I go visit...
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bladeskier, I have thought about it, on several occasions, but struggle to get the energy together. I can't remember what I did with you either. The thing is I don't do the same thing with everyone - depends on their faults (although many have serious balance probs). therefore, I'd have to do it for each person individually .... I kinda thought that they could do their own .... does that sound mean? Hope not. However a lot of what I do ends up on this forum in one way, shape or another ...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There was a page in the In-Gear supplement to last Sundays Times which outlined some exercises for ski prep. One of which appears to be a balance exercise - stand on one leg, rock gently back and forth etc.. repeat on other leg. can't remember all of the details but I've kept the page and will look at every day between now and January
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| easiski wrote: |
BTW, I'm not convinced at all by the waist steering stuff - it certainly wouldn't work on the snow we had last week!  Probably does on the easy, fluffy stuff they get in the rockies though. |
Why is that? It seems to work on the indoor snow OK.
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halfhand, try doing that with your eyes closed, unless it makes looking at the page difficult 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
stand on one leg, rock gently back and forth etc.. repeat on other leg.
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yep, we should all be doing this, with the eyes closed once it gets easy. A Pilates teacher told me it takes 6 weeks, doing this just for a coupla minutes each day, for the brain to train itself to cope. Little and often is the answer. I used to do it on Havant station waiting for the 0637 to Waterloo (didn't fall over that often...) But now I am retired, with far more time, I often plain forget. Must try harder; just time to get the brain in training before the season begins. Thanks for the link, easiski, will definitely take a look at that. After our session I did a lot on one leg and got quite good on my right leg, even able to do some gentle turns on the outside edge, down tracks rather than anything steeper. Wobblier on the left, but will continue to practice; it's a really good way of making use of otherwise rather boring tracks.
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easiski, Rick is a tremendous coach and skier, and focuses on filling the toolbox with all kinds of things... including what Tommy has dubbed waiststeering. He'll be the first to tell you that it's not "the way to ski" but for some folks on some terrain and conditions it will make them faster (which it Tommy's focus).
His early-season warm-up is quite good, isn't it?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
His early-season warm-up is quite good, isn't it?
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His early season warm up will take me all this season and half of next....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
His early-season warm-up is quite good, isn't it?
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His early season warm up will take me all this season and half of next.... |
that is Rick for you.... ask easiski about the FIRST few pages of exercises he wrote for me.... and the second stayed at home after the first day.... and I haven't even asked about getting the next lot yet....
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Great article.
But he used that phrase, unfortunately, Centrifugal Force.........
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You know it makes sense.
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OK all the instructing pros out there - why has no-one ever produced the alpine equivalent of the excellent Allen & Mike's really Cool Telemark tips, 100+ handy tips in cartoon illustrated form? Its humourous, technically pretty good, has memorable drills and is small enough to take out on the slopes.
I think the alpine equivalent could clean up and though it may not appeal to the more po-faced technical schools of thought, the cartoon format may enable more than one school to be illustrated.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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s**t no-one told me you had to do it with your eyes closed!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Because one only uses drills in response to specific individual needs.
Person A may require drill P to help develop/cure X
Person B may require drill Q to help develop/cure Y
Having a list of drills and exercises in front of you is of limited use if you don't know what that drill/exercise is supposed to help develop.
PLUS
The number of times I've seen people practice a drill - or try a drill a friend has given them, only to see them get the emphasis completely wrong.
There is no shortcut. You need a pro to help develop your skiing! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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veeeight, I agree and tried to resist the urge to comment on CF but couldn't help thinking thrust, drag, lift and g ! Oh and the odd equilibrium. I suppose it means we were listening 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| veeeight wrote: |
Because one only uses drills in response to specific individual needs.
There is no shortcut. You need a pro to help develop your skiing! |
Not arguing with you but their are plenty of instruction books and DVDs out there which address common problem areas and how to tackle them. I can accept that these for some people can cause more harm than good but for others they must be a valid source of info?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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fatbob,
| Quote: |
OK all the instructing pros out there - why has no-one ever produced the alpine equivalent of the excellent Allen & Mike's really Cool Telemark tips, 100+ handy tips in cartoon illustrated form? Its humourous, technically pretty good, has memorable drills and is small enough to take out on the slopes.
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You can use a fair few of the tips in there for Alpine skiing anyway
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| veeeight wrote: |
Because one only uses drills in response to specific individual needs.
There is no shortcut. You need a pro to help develop your skiing! |
Not arguing with you but their are plenty of instruction books and DVDs out there which address common problem areas and how to tackle them. I can accept that these for some people can cause more harm than good but for others they must be a valid source of info? |
I will suggest that they always provide a valid source of info, but the tendency of many people to want to find "the secret" instead of simply filling their toolbox with more tools and options will tend to overemphasize various movements and drills to the detriment of the skier's overall skillset.
Frankly, I think the best possible videos are those like the old Cybervision skiing videos that simply follow a superb skier down the slopes to help ingrain the visual-based sensations of excellent skiing. I haven't seen any for modern technique/equipment, however.
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| easiski wrote: |
| marc gledhill, I don't like waist steering (I did try it in my flat BTW) because it appears to use steering without pressure. |
As I understand it (i.e. it's probably wrong) waist steering does use a lot of pressure at initiation, but then lets directional change/gravity take over more of the business of bending the ski during the later stages of the turn.
How did you do it in your flat?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski, waiststeering (IIUC) is really more driving the pelvis around the turn similarly to how we sometimes teach skiers to drive their outside hand through the turn. It keeps the body parts from doing a lot of rotation/counter-rotation, and is intended more to block poor movements than to introduce a new movement. The pressure builds just like with any other turn technique, but the real focus is on a disciplined midbody.
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Is this a good point to mention tai-chi?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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veeeight, 2 sugars please
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| fatbob wrote: |
Not arguing with you but their are plenty of instruction books and DVDs out there which address common problem areas and how to tackle them. I can accept that these for some people can cause more harm than good but for others they must be a valid source of info? |
Yes, it is a valid source of info. A scattergun is a valid technique 
Let me give you an example. You watch a Warren Smith video. He explains how to edge the ski, to "carve".
You go onto the slope, you get on your edges, and "carve". But how do you know you are replicating that 100%?
How is your fore-aft balance? Are you inclinating or angulating? Which ski is hooking up more?
OR
You follow an exercise that is set out on the video...... how do you know you're getting it right? What's the feedback mechanism?
From looking at skiers doing exercises on the mountain when I'm on the chair - I can safely say that the vast majority of them are getting the intended exercise wrong, but blissfully unaware of it.
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I've finally found time to look at the web site, and found a lot of it very interesting. I wouldn't actually want to try any of the new exercises without instruction, as I'd probably get them wrong, just as has been said. However I did find it instructional to look at the pictures of racers and see how technique differs. If nothing else, it give me, as a relative beginner, a good view of the range of variation, both historical and current. I'm one of those people who like to understand the physics of why my skis turn and why certain things work - just telling me to do something is OK, and I'll try it, but I also want to know why. This is interesting to me, and actually explained some of the things I was being taught last year quite well.
The pre-season exercises were similar to those Brian gave us at the Snowdome recently, and we've been practising these in our sessions there. Brian occasionally sees us and gives us a thumbs-up! However, I would only want to try something radically new with somebody watching who can say if I'm doing it right or not - otherwise I'd just get bad technique hard-wired! A variation on an existing exercise might be OK to try.
So I think these web sites and so on are quite helpful to consolidate things you have already learned, and perhaps offer a scientific explanation to sad geeks like me who want them. Likewise, I think Phil Smith's DVD's will be of more use to me after I've been on his course.
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You know it makes sense.
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veeeight,
I tend to agree with you -was really playing a bit of devil's advocate about why there's a whole industry of tuition DVDs etc. However, I picked up the Warren Smith "chicken wings" tip for the bumps from one of his DVDs and found it worked better for me than most things I'd ever been taught.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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backtomasters, welcome to snowHeads! It's a great website that you have there
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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backtomasters, hello, my friend... Nice to have you here, too!
I did play with it a bit with Rick, so I have some ideas about it. But, I'd certainly not try to teach it to anyone, yet... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Figures... I'm up Sat/Sun... When do you arrive? PM me if we can connect for a drink Sun night?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ssh wrote: |
| But, I'd certainly not try to teach it to anyone, yet... |
LMK when you need a guinea pig?
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backtomasters, welcome over here!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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marc gledhill, I got a long article about it from Little tiger at the PSB, when Rick had explained it for another person. there was a detailed explanation of how to do it on the flat in your house before trying it on the snow. I followed the instructions and found that all the movements happened exactly as described. However it does allow/promote a hip rotation, which I don't agree with in any normal circumstances. However, if I ever get to meet Rick I am more than willing to be proved wrong!
ssh, I NEVER tell anyone (especially not beginners) to bring their outside arms around for exactly the same reasons as above. I can see we're going to have lots of very interesting (hopefully on snow) discussions at the EOSB!
I can see that there are racing implications for occasional use (as with in air foot rotation), and there are certainly emergency situations where nothing but a gross rotation will get you out of immediate trouble/danger, and I can see the skill/toolbox use of being able to do it, but I can't personally see a useful way of bringing it into my regular teaching at the moment.
Basically, a lot of my students have a problem with rotation, it's one of the main things that keeps them "plateau'd". therefore I spend a great deal of time (apart from balance exercises) finding ways for them to let the skis do the work. We have these fantastic skis now, they will do it almost all for us - to me it seems a shame to then do the work ourselves. Carving and using the ski is not an either/or thing, there are degrees of edge and of carved turns, it is edge control that allows us to use the ski to describe the arc that we want to. If the ski is flat, we cannot do this. If we rotate, the turning ski is flat.
that is not to say that I won't experiment with it once we're open again and my ankle is (hopefully) repaired!
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FAQ
BTW, will be up Monday and Tuesday (staying in Frisco). Rick's going to "drill us" 
